Discussions By Condition: Gastrointestinal conditions

Non-surgical treatment for rectal prolapse?

Posted In: Gastrointestinal conditions 55 Replies
  • Posted By: AmateurHistorian
  • April 17, 2007
  • 08:35 AM

I'm a 50 year old male. I recently discovered that I have a slight rectal prolapse, meaning that part of what's supposed to be inside me is starting to emerge outside. Obviously I can't see it, but I can feel it, and it feels like a pair of puckered lips emerging from my rectum. The prolapse isn't causing any problems so far, but I want to do anything I can to keep it from worsening, and reverse it if possible.

I've done lots of internet research on this. The prolapse is caused by weakening of the muscles and ligaments that hold the colon and rectum in place. Virtually every source I found says that the only treatment for prolapse is surgery. I found two doctors who claim that they can correct prolapse with physical therapy, but neither of them is anywhere near where I live, and I presume they wouldn't just tell me their techniques over the phone, for free.

The surgery-only answer -- even though it's the majority opinion -- doesn't wash with me. Surgeons have a vested interest in that answer, and physical therapists may not have ever tried to work with prolapse. I think there have to be some physical-therapy options. So I'm trying something on my own: Kegel exercises. These are best known as the exercises that pregnant women do to strengthen their vaginal muscles both before and after delivery. The same muscles also control defecation and urination by contracting the rectum and urethra.

Men have the same muscles, and they serve the same purposes -- except, of course, contracting the vagina. So my thinking is, if I do these Kegel exercises, which are simply sets of contracting and releasing the rectal-urethral muscles, that that will strengthen my rectum and prevent the prolapse from worsening, and possibly even reverse it.

(By the way, these same muscles control sexual orgasm, for both men and women, so Kegel exercises are also recommended for strengthening orgasm, and for women to tighten their vaginas. I believe this is also the basis of the methods described in the Kama Sutra and modern books for enabling extended intercourse and multiple male orgasm. Something fun to know and tell. :D)

So my question is, has anyone else tried this, or other physical-therapy techniques, for stopping and reversing rectal prolapse? I only started the Kegels two weeks ago -- I do them on alternate days, and I'm slowly building up the number of reps and sets -- and so far I can't tell any difference. I'm willing to consult doctors, physical therapists, sports trainers, anatomy books, medical journals, etc. -- but I thought I'd ask here first.

Anyone?

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55 Replies:

  • I mentioned this post in another thread (http://forums.wrongdiagnosis.com/showthread.php?p=38748), and got this reply, which I thought I should copy here:You may or may not wish to believe this, but acupuncture and Chinese herbal medicine is very helpful for most organ prolapse (anal, rectal, vaginal, uterine). There is a centuries old herbal formula called Bu Zhong Yi Qi Tang that is an empirical formula specifically for this problem. Best wishesDOMI've had a lot of successful treatment in the past from practitioners of oriental medicine, and I trust it, so this could be my answer. However, I'm still doing my Kegel exercises, and I'll report back on what results I get from that.
    AmateurHistorian 74 Replies Flag this Response
  • I joined this site just so I could reply to your post, AmateurHistorian. I too have a rectal prolapse. I thought it was hemorrhoids, and tried many things, but nothing that used to work for roid flare-ups was working anymore..and pain sitting (office job) was unbearable. When going to the bathroom, as another user said, it 'felt like my ******e was turning inside out'. This has happened in the past on occasion but was never a big deal. Lately, however, it won't go back in by itself, and is becoming harder and harder to push in. I, too, have spent much time on the internet (it is now 4 AM where I am, I've been awake since 12:30 AM worrying and thinking about this)..and I too saw that various types of surgery are presumably the only answer to this. Well, I'm with you--not an option I want to go for. It's interesting that you mentioned Kegels, because I had thought of that as well. So I started doing them today. Please do let me (us, the forum, whatever) know if the Kegels are helping you. I am female, aged 44. I'm really not sure why I"m having this "issue" (oh, good pun there) as I don't get constipated and didn't think I sat too long on the pot but who knows, maybe I do. Anyway, I'm scared stiff about '******e surgery' and will do anything to avoid it. From my internet research I'm thinking of trying chinese herbs and/or acupuncture. I have never used either and dont know where to start. A colleague sees an acupuncturist for migraines and he says its been great, I suppose I could start there. .... I'm glad to find an allie in this war against the prolapse. Of all things, this has got to be the most humiliating, among other things, ...but to keep it in perspective, I try to remember how much so many people go through all the time....(but i still don't want surgery!)
    TheBlueBowl 13 Replies Flag this Response
  • Dear Blue,True, rectal prolapse isn't anything I'd bring up at cocktail parties. But then, I never go to cocktail parties, so it's a not a big issue for me (yes, that is a good pun). But the most humiliating? For me, not even close ... which perhaps tells you something about my life. :D Anyway, I've raised two kids and worked in hospitals and hospices ... the rectum is just another part of the body.As to the cause of prolapse, everything I've read says that it can be caused by chronic constipation and/or excessive straining of the bowel muscle, or by anal sex. But at least as often, its just a normal consequence of aging or inherently weak abdominal tissues. Put another way, prolapse happens.Excessive straining could have been a factor in my prolapse. 15+ years ago I began to have some kind of chronic fatigue (recently diagnosed as caused by sleep apnea and a low degree of anxiety, both disrupting my sleep; I'm getting successful treatment for both). One of the features of my fatigue was that I always felt better after emptying my bowels -- not just the familiar, "Ah, that felt good," but actually stronger and more energetic. Sometimes emptying my bowels would save me two hours of sleep. None of the dozens of allopathic doctors to whom I've mentioned this had even the vaguest idea why that would be; one oriental medical practitioner gave me an explanation that made sense at the time, but I've forgotten what it was.Anyway, many years ago I got into the habit of long, frequent sit-downs every day, because keeping my bowels as empty as possible helped me feel so much stronger. (Geeeez, isn't that only supposed to happen once you turn 75??) So it could be that my prolapse is a consequence of all that time on the toilet.Yes, I'll definitely report back on what results I get from my Kegels. My life is very full through early June, including a long trip, so I probably won't write much until then. But then, physical therapy is a slow process, and I'm flying blind, so it'll probably take at least that long before I see any changes anyway.Thankfully I'm not having any pain or discomfort from my prolapse (just the panic of first discovering it), either when I'm eliminating or just sitting in a chair. So I haven't needed to research anything for pain relief, and I don't know anything to suggest. If you're having that much pain, I definitely think you should call your doctor and/or do some more internet research. If the accupuncture, herbs, or other oriental treatments will help the prolapse, I assume they'd help the pain too.But I also don't try to push my prolapsed rectum back in, and from what I know, I don't think that would be a good idea. Since prolapse is caused by weakened muscles and ligaments, I would think that pushing the prolapsed tissue back inside manually would have no effect, at best, or further weaken things and worsen the prolapse, at worst. (I haven't read anything that says this, or talked to a doctor, this is just my amateur understanding of anatomy.) On the other hand, I have thought about packing gauze tightly against my rectum at bedtime, hoping to ease the tension on the internal tissue for at least those hours of the day. Haven't tried it yet, though.For sure, I won't consider surgery unless nothing else helps and things are getting worse. After 15-some years of mainstream doctors unable to help me with my chronic fatigue, and usually skeptical that it was even real, I've lost most of my trust in allopathic medicine. I'm continuing my Kegels, and will also talk to other people who might have suggestions about non-surgical treatments, including accupuncture and the Chinese herbal formula mentioned below. I know one alternative healer and one physical therapist whom I'll talk to soon, and I'll seek out others too. I'll report back whatever I learn.If you do want to try some of the oriental techniques, yes, ask your colleague about his acupuncturist. Maybe your colleague knows more about oriental medicine and could give you other referrals too. And if you ask around, maybe other people you know also see oriental practitioners. If you live in a city of any size, there may be a school of oriental medicine that can give you referrals. I've seen quite a few oriental practitioners, and had many treatments including acupuncture, herbs, cupping, and energy balancing. A lot of them helped, none of them made anything worse, and most of the fees were quite reasonable (thank goodness, since none of this is covered by medical insurance, except sometimes acupuncture).-- Chris
    AmateurHistorian 74 Replies Flag this Response
  • Well, in TCM(Traditional Chinese Medicine) school we learned about prolapses of uterus, rectum, anus as all conditions where the Qi is sinking. The classical Chinese patent formula for this condition is called Bu Zhong Yi Qi Tang. Although I personally haven't treated this condition, I think acupuncture and Chinese medicine would be very effective, especially for milder or earlier cases. Here is a website that deals directly with this: http://www.acupuncturetoday.com/archives2001/jan/01abbate.html My personal feeling is I will try everything else before opting for surgery. If you can afford to give it some time, then please try acupuncture. You can always get the surgery eventually if you need it. And acupuncture will help speed the healing after surgery. Best wishesDOM
    acuann 3,080 Replies Flag this Response
  • ann, you're a blessing to everyone on this site. Thank you so much for all the information you've shared both here and in many many other threads that I've now read and contributed to. :) Obviously both I and Blue agree about surgery being an absolute last resort.You say you have training in Chinese medicine; are you also an active practitioner?
    AmateurHistorian 74 Replies Flag this Response
  • Amateur HistorianThank you for your kind words - you made my day.:) Yes, I am currently a Doctor of Oriental Medicine and have a small clinic. It is very rewarding being able to help people in their journey towards health and well being. Best wishesDOM
    acuann 3,080 Replies Flag this Response
  • I tried accupunture combined w/chinese herbs for my prolapse, but it didn't help any. Could be the practitioner was no good, though. So would not rule it out, just yet. I also have tried various herbs from the health food store as well as Galvanetic ionic therapy. Neither of those helped me any either...You want to know what I do? Fiber & stool softeners. Try to empty my bowels completely w/out straining. Most of all though, Everytime it starts to prolapse out, I go into the bathroom, spit on my finger & cram it back in as far as I can. Crude but effective, just wash your hands REALLY good afterward please! Sometimes it's 10 or 12 annoying times a day, sometimes only once, after a bowel movement...Which if you can, try & get in the habit of emptying them all at once & early in the morning. I usually shower after my main w/as hot a water as a can stand running on the anal area & then reverse it to ice cold...1st one & then the other for bit before getting out. Finally if you can lay on your side for a while & relax it will sometimes help make it stay in. I think a person could DEFINATELY improve some through physical therapy, but don't know if "kegals" are really the right one. Yoga is something I'm thinking about looking into, but haven't yet. I reallly doubt anything short of surgury will fully reverse a prolapse forever though, sorry to say...& of course even they have a failure rate & reoccurance factor, as well as the possibilty of making you even worse off.
    Anonymous 42,789 Replies Flag this Response
  • Man, this board is just making me laugh my prolapsed **s off tonight. :D You've got some really creative suggestions. I've never looked into any specific herbs for prolapse, or even heard of any other than the formula that acuann named. Never heard of Galvanetic ionic therapy either. I'll do some reading.When you say fiber, do you mean packaged products like Metamucil? That stuff is way expensive, and I don't think I need it anyway; I eat a healthy vegetarian diet with lots of fresh vegetables and fruits. Empty bowels completely without straining, sure, that's ideal. Stool softener, hmm, not a bad idea. Although, like so much else, don't those cause problems if you use them steadily over a long period of time? Of course, I could add prunes back to my diet ... I love 'em, and have gotten out of the habit of eating them. (Geeez, I sound about 70 years old.)"Spit on my finger & cram it back in as far as I can" is what really cracked me up. (Oh my, the puns just keep rolling.) Sure, I could do that, I'm not shy about using my fingers around my rectum. (I've had unpleasantly many occasions of constipation so severe and painful that the only way I could complete a bowel movement was to reach down and pull it out with my fingers. Reckon all the constipation mighta contributed to my prolapse? ~sigh~) And of course I wash very very thoroughly anytime I do, and disposable gloves are pretty cheap too. But the $64K question is, is the "cramming it back in" helping at all?I already try to make my bowel movements as complete and as few as I can -- although as I said, keeping my bowels empty boosts my energy so much that I pretty much head for the head at the first feeling of fullness. I average 3-4 bowel movements a day.Alternating hot and cold water on the rectum is also an interesting idea; I can see how that might help tone the rectal tissues. Again, do you find that it makes a difference for you? I'd love to lie down on my side more than I do (I sleep on my sides), but I don't get that opportunity much. After so many years of chronic fatigue and lying down far more than I wanted to, now that my health is returning, I stay as active as I can, including training for a physically demanding career that I hope to start soon.Yoga is a good thought too. I've been doing a daily yoga routine for 8 or 9 months now and haven't noticed any effect from that on the prolapse. But then, it's a general routine that I learned from a "Yoga For Dummies" tape, and so maybe I should consult a real yoga teacher. ~grin~Re. your lack of success with accupuncture & herbs, don't give up yet. It's been my experience that successful treatment from oriental medicine depends more on the individual practitioner than is the case with allopathic medicine. That doesn't mean that oriental medicine is any less valid. It just means that (a) for good or bad, allopathic pharmaceuticals usually do have some effect, and any idiot doctor can write scrips for them, and (b) oriental medicine requires a more intuitive and careful practitioner, and so the incidence of dud practitioners is perhaps higher in oriental medicine. So I would definitely try again with another practitioner. Look around for positive referrals from satisfied clients. If you should be so lucky as to get a referral from someone who was treated for rectal prolapse (and is willing to admit it!!), so much the better.So my own plan is to, first, keep up the Kegels for awhile and see if I'm getting any results. If not, then I'll start talking to physical therapists, sports trainers, holistic M.D.'s, and yoga teachers, and see a DOM for acupuncture and/or herbs.I'm also going to look into qi gong, which is another oriental healing art (based on a martial art, I think). It involves body poses and controlled breathing techniques, and I've been hearing from people who claim it's helped them control medical conditions for which allopathy has few or no answers. My original interest in qi gong was for treatment of my chronic fatigue and chronic depression, which I'm currently treating with allopathic methods and medications. Those have helped me dramatically so I'm not complaining about them as such. But I think I can improve even more, and I'm not at all keen on the idea of sleeping with a face mask connected to an air pump, and taking powerful pharmaceuticals, for the rest of my life. Anyway, it could be that qi gong can also address prolapses. I don't know, I've only done the most superficial reading on it so far.Do please tell me whether the things I asked about above are helping you. I'm nowhere near ready to give up and go for surgery. I respect what surgery can accomplish, and I've met some top-flight surgeons who are also complete human beings. But as a group, I find surgeons to be arrogant *****s who don't adequately inform their patients about rates of failure, recurrence, and other negative consequences, and have trouble seeing the use of anything beyond their knives. Aside from trauma repair, I would never consider a surgeon a primary source of treatment advice.
    AmateurHistorian 74 Replies Flag this Response
  • Amateur, I completely agree with you concerning Oriental Medicine and finding the right practitioner. As an acupuncturist, I am always seeking other practitioners to trade with and get treatments...some are colleaques, and, unfortunately, some just don't go the extra mile with their diagnosis. There are a zillion different methods of treating patients, but if they don't have a root understanding of basic Oriental Medicine diagnosis, then I believe there treatments won't be successful. So do shop around, for both allopathic and integrative treatments! Qi Gong is fantastic, and is the precursor, or base upon which all Martial Arts are based. There are many different forms - google Qi Gong and illness and see what you find. Best wishesDOM
    acuann 3,080 Replies Flag this Response
  • Hey. I was surprised to see so many replies to the thread, obviously since I didn't come back to the board after the first response to my post, it didn't tell me there were anymore replies--I shoulda known that! Anyway...lots of interesting stuff here, and some things to report myself. First of all, honestly I'm not sure I have rectal prolapse or prolapsed roids. I did go to my GP doc, but she spent more time on a regular exam and gyn exam than she did on my butt, although I told her what was going on. I told her I figured it was roids (because I was back to thinking that; I vascillate all the time as to what it is), she stuck a well-lubed finger up my butt and said, "I feel something squishy in there" while I said ouch!!!! whatever happened to being gentle..anyway, all she gave me was some lidocaine-hydrocortisone cream which hasn't done anything to help and even seems to irritate the tissue more, so I don't use it. A colleague sees an acupuncturist, name of Bill, who he swears by, helped his migraines immensely. So after reading on this board that acupuncture could help prolapse, I made an appt for last week, took some valium for nerves, and was quite surprised at how painless it was. As a bonus I received a mind-blowing back massage (ahhhh!). Anyway, Bill also specializes in herbs and said he could make me an herbal formula that would "help a lot". I have my second appt tomorrow with him, and hopefully he will have the herbs ready by then. When he and I discussed my situation, we talked a lot about bowel habits etc etc, always a fun topic to discuss with a stranger...the main focus being on hemorroids. Tomorrow I need to stress again that my big problem is the prolapse itself. Since my GP was useless in really seeing what was going on, I'm thinking I may have to see a proctologist to get a true idea what I have going on down there. Needless to say I don't relish the idea of *that* sort of exam. So I'm hoping Bill can help regardless of knowing exactly if my problem is roids or rectal prolapse--either way, it's prolapse coming out my butt, and if chinese medicine can help, it oughta help any kind, as DOM said. I have also seriously upped my fiber intake. I thought I ate enough but I realized I don't. Historian--don't even bother with metamucil or citrucel. I was taking them before I realized that we are supposed to get between 25-35 grams of fiber per day, and they only contribute 2 g per dose! What I did, after doing a web search for highest fiber foods, was stock up on cereal like All-Bran and Fiber One. They have around 15g of fiber per serving which is almost half what you need. I also discovered a nutrition bar called Gnu bars (www.gnufoods.com) online, and just picked some up at a local store to try the taste. These small all-natural bars have an unbelievable 12 grams of fiber per bar!! Anywho, long story is that like Unregistered User above said, quick fast efficient craps is what I'm hoping will make all the difference. hahaha. I still have to push my prolapse back in after each b.m., and it's getting harder to do, and more painful...but I'm hoping the combination of everything new I'm trying (more fiber, herbs, acupuncture) will help eventually. I also discovered that squatting with feet on the toilet, which is a fun balancing act and looks insanely stupid (I live alone so who cares) really *does* put less pressure on the roids, so I get less prolapse when I go that way. Going that way is easier after eating a lot of fiber cuz you really don't wanna try to be perched like a monkey on your toilet for very long....ha ha ha. Alas, I did also look into PPH (I think that's it) which is a type of prolapse procedure that lifts the rectal tissue up and cuts out about an inch in the middle, then they sew it up..presumably much less painful that regular surgery and a high rate of success..I read some testimonials from patients that look promising..and found a surgeon who specializes in the procedure, and looked at my insurance providers....all in case I finally do need to go under the knife. But I will keep trying the herbs and acupuncture first, as long as there's any chance it will cure this..or at least make it symptom free. The pain I get can be really bad, sometimes. Luckily it's not all the time. Sorry so long winded. Had a lot to say I guess.Bowlish One.
    TheBlueBowl 13 Replies Flag this Response
  • BlueBowl,Glad to hear you are on the right path! I am glad you explored ALL of your options, and that surgery is an option if the acupuncture/herbs doesn't clear things up completely. Give this some time and keep us posted. Best wishesDOM
    acuann 3,080 Replies Flag this Response
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  • Hi.I just wanted to chime in on the fiber thing -- Fiber One cereal has really helped keep me "going' . While I have not tried the stuff they have that looks like bunny food pellets, the raisin bran and other bran ones have helped me a lot. I don't mean to sound like a commercial -- I just found some relief from the constipation that was making my problem even more painful with the Fiber One -- I don't see any/many other cereals that have as much fiber per serving.Thanks!
    Anonymous 42,789 Replies Flag this Response
  • Ann, I have a question for you. Can acupuncture cause tingling/numbness in the fingertips? I recently have noticed this; he has needled my wrists and hands. I didn't notice it right after he did it so I'm not sure the acupuncture is the cause. It's only in my left hand. I cancelled my appt. with him today due to fear of making this worse. I didn't talk to him directly so I have not mentioned it to him; my colleague sees him tomorrow and will mention it then. Also, Ann, how long do you think it would take to start seeing results, if I'm going to get any, for rectal prolapse, from the acupuncture? I am getting discouraged. I thought things were getting better, largely due, I thought, to the increased fiber intake I've been on for the last week. Over the weekend I was actually able to drive w/out pain--sitting in the car was always the worst. However, today, back to work (a sit-down job) and my butt was hurting again. Not terrible, but by the time I was driving home at day's end, it was getting terrible! Now, as usual when I have pain, nothing helps, it hurts very much and won't go away. I have found that taking a small dose of valium helps, obviously due to the muscle relaxation aspect of that drug. I'm sooo depressed about this. I am sick to death of thinking of nothing but my ******e all the time!! I am tired of the protrusion whenever I "go", although I've learned better how to pack it back in..but come on!! It's just not supposed to be that way. And I am getting so dismayed from this pain. I am getting very close to calling the surgeon but needless to say I still hesitate due to extreme embarassment about this--ok no one wants someone peering up their ******e, and this is gross looking when it sticks out (not to be graphic, but it is, I had to look with a mirror to try to diagnose myself)...and not only that, the surgeon I want to try doesn't become a provider on my insurance until July 1. I probably couldnt get an appt until then anyway, but I stil haven't called. I'm so depressed about this that I cry a lot...I just dont know if the acupuncture will work or if it's adding to my misery by causing this strange numbness in my fingers...sigh. i don't know what to do. I should also mention I have been taking an herbal supplment that has japanese pagoda plant, horse chestnut, and butcher's broom. I wasn't having any side effects, its' been about 3 weeks of taking it. Could *that* be causing the numbness?? Seems odd if it is, since it's only one hand. I don't know if the herbs are doing anything anyway, because they are supposed to be for 'roids, but the more I deal with this problem the more I think it's rectal prolapse, not roids. And did I just say in my last post I thought it is 'roids?! Ugh I just don't know.
    TheBlueBowl 13 Replies Flag this Response
  • BlueBowl,I am sorry you are having no real relief from the acupuncture- is your acupuncturist Asian? I ask this because most DOM's from China/Asia have an agressive needle technique, and it is possible this could be contributing to your numbness in your one hand...does your acupuncturist also prescribe Chinese herbal formulas? He would need to be NCCAOM certified in Chinese Herbology - where do you live? Depending on this, he may not have been trained in herbs, and if you can find one who has it would be very helpful. The classic Chinese formula for prolapse is called Bu Zhong Yi Qi Tang, but most likely you would need a combination of formulas and herbs to help you. I stress the Chinese Herbal part because I don't think acupuncture is enough to treat this problem - you need Herbs to "raise your qi" and stop the "sinking", if this makes sense. Did your acupuncturist give you a Chinese diagnosis? If not, please ask him for one, and post here. The "supplement" does not sound appropriate for you - it is more for vascular/hemmorhoids, you are right. I know you were happy to try acupuncture because your friend recommended it, but I feel you would have better results with someone who is a certified herbalist - they have more in depth training. Please tell your practitioner about your emotions - they are important. Often depression is a sign of liver stagnation - and once you further "move the Qi" things will improve. And hang in there - wish I could be more helpful.Best wishesDOM
    acuann 3,080 Replies Flag this Response
  • Thanks for replying Ann. Yes, my acupuncturist (Bill) is also an herbalist. I meant to look at his card to see what he's certified as (I can't remember, but there's 2 on there). And yes, he did mention that its my liver, and that he needs to raise my qi. No, he is not Asian. I only had the acupuncture twice (2 weeks in a row). He did say it would probably take at least a month to start seeing results, and he also did say that he thought herbs would work better for me than the acupuncture alone (just as you said). He keeps saying he's going to make me a formula, but hasn't done so yet. When I told him what I am currently taking, he sort of balked at making a formula for me, as if to see if what I'm taking would work...which makes me wonder, because although he has said the formula he could make would be much better because it would be tailor-made for me (including helping other symptoms like my occasional insomnia), I need to call and ask him to go ahead and do it, because even he said what I'm now taking is just vascular (just like you said)---so then quit having me continue with this if it isn't going to work, and get on with the formula that will!! Argh. At this point I don't want to continue w/ the acupuncture because I do think it's what's caused this numbness (which still hasn't gone away; do you think it will go away???). I am going to ask him to make the formula and try that. I know the stuff I'm taking isn't doing any good. It worked for the first few days--I think it took care of all it could take care of, and then became unable to do anymore. Thanks for mentioning the classic Chinese formula for prolapse. I would HOPE he knows that already, but even so, I am going to mention it when I call. I really want to get going on that, I want something that works, I don't want surgery! Thanks again for your input. I was happy to see most of what you mentioned *has* been at least brought up by him, that he IS an herbalist, and does have knowledge and ability to come up with something. So here's hoping.
    TheBlueBowl 13 Replies Flag this Response
  • That is odd about the numbness - haven't ever had this happen, that I am aware of...I would think massaging the hand should be helpful. Do you have any neck or shoulder pain? Sometimes this can cause numbness in the hands and wrist, and acupuncture should help, not make worse. But please follow your gut on this one. I am glad to hear your DOM has herbal training, and hope you start that formula soon. I have found that Herbs can help so much better when added to acupuncture treatments. Even though most taste pretty nasty, my patients notice a real difference and look forward to taking them! Keep us posted and please be patient. I know this must be hard for you... What is your diet like? What sort of foods do you like to eat? Do you have any food cravings? DOM
    acuann 3,080 Replies Flag this Response
  • Hi Ann, (this is mostly for you)...Well I went back to my acupuncturist, I won't even go into how long he made me wait while he was off on a personal shopping spree, and the 'attitude' I got when he walked in (since I had called about the numbness in my hand, he got defensive, and obviously still was when I got there). He did however, find a lump in my forearm which he said was stagnant qi, he massaged it (hard) and told me to continue to do so. Happily the numbness has subsided a lot, it's not totally gone but is mostly so. Anyway, on to the more important thing--the herbs. He FINALLY gave me my herbs, Ann, here is what he gave me, this is what he wrote on the packet: Jia wei xiao wan; suan zao ren; yie siao (or jiao, I can't read it) teng. I'm supposed to take 2-3 tsps per day. He said he wasn't going to give me the prolapse formula (the one you mentioned, which I told him about, and it was interesting how he reacted, almost defensively that I would actually KNOW something like that...) he said that formula is too "hot" for me right now and that this formula is supposed to, in my words (not his) clean out my liver (so to speak)...get things going, etc...I guess rather 'prepare' my body for the 'hotter' prolapse formula. He said I should start noticing results in a week. Wed. night will be a week, I don't feel anything yet. He said it would help me sleep etc but it hasn't done anything that I can feel. I WANT the prolapse formula. My butt is getting worse, it is seriously interfering w/ the quality of my life (I had to opt out of going to the movies last night because I couldnt even sit in the car long enough to get there, nevermind sit through a movie!). The fiber I'm taking is helping tremendously with my toilet habits, no straining at all now, but I still get the prolapse every time I go, have to 'help' it back in, and then almost always have pain most of the remainder of the day. Usually only by bedtime does the pain subside, only to return again next morning after 'going'. I'm dreading going back to my sit-down job tomorrow. By the way, I did stop the other herbal supplement I was taking (he said I could); now I"m beginning to wonder if it WAS helping alittle, but I know it wasn't doing much anymore, and is very expensive so I doubt taking it again is worth it. Ann, WHAT IS THIS STUFF HE GAVE ME? Is it ANY good for raising my liver qi, helping the prolapse??? He has such a snotty defensive attitude towards me now that I almost hate to tell him, "Look I really want to get on the prolapse formula". I can't wait 3 weeks (that's howlong I"m supposed to take this stuff), then he said he'd probably give me a 50/50 mix of the prolapse formula, be on that another 3 weeks I'm guessing, before he finally gives me the full dose of the prolapse formula...I mean COME ON. I am in pain here, seriously, and even were I to finally make an appt with a proctologist and get the surgery, I probably wouldn't be able to get an appt for months...so I really want some relief, I know the herbs will take a while to start working but at least let me be on what I SHOULD be on! ! Ann, do you think I should seek out a different herbalist who will give me the prolapse formula now?? DO you think this guy is jerking me around? In theory I can see what he's doing, trying to treat the 'whole person', but I just don't think he realizes the extent of my misery. He still thinks I have hemorroids as I have not felt comfortable enough w/ him lately to tell him that I'm quite sure that's not it, its a prolapsed rectum (I think) and is very painful when it hurts which is getting to be more. My summer is already lousy due to this, and isn't getting any happier as I realize more and more that I"m probably going to have to go through anal surgery for this. I can't believe this is happening. FOr the record--I do not have anal sex or put anything up my **s. I am not overweight or unhealthy. I don't smoke or do drugs. But I am under much stress due to a very noisy living environment and a disastrous unhappy love affair. I'm sure the stress added to this problem but what's done is done, now I need to fix this. Thanks for your help, Ann, and/or anyone else.
    TheBlueBowl 13 Replies Flag this Response
  • Oh, and to answer your questions..no I don't have any food cravings that I can think of. I eat a lot of chicken (free range), lots of fiber-full cereal (now I do!), skim milk; for breakfast I have a protein shake with banana, I eat low-fat yogurt (Yoplait), um...frozen veggies sometimes, sometimes pork chops, or minute steaks. Cheese and tomato sandwich on wheat bread. I do occasionally want junk food..cookies, or cheetos, things like that. Yes, I do crave Chinese food a lot! Haven't had any in a while. Why do you ask? Does this help you figure out what's wrong??
    TheBlueBowl 13 Replies Flag this Response
  • So, did those Kegel exercises work? I'm very interested in how your therapies turned out, what treatments you decided to try and whether you eventually ended up going to surgery or not.Thanks for all your candor and helpful comments so far...
    Anonymous 42,789 Replies Flag this Response
  • Hi, I just came across this thread today. Just wondering if any of you have any updates on your situation? I too suspect I have a prolapse in its early stages, though I have had long-standing problems with hemorrhoids. I had surgery for them back in 2000 but since then things have slowly but surely gotten worse. My surgeon back then said I had 'loose bowel lining' which I since found out meant a mucosal prolapse. I've had rubber banding several times in the last couple of years which gave short-term benefits but things have still been deteriorating, and recently I've felt something protruding after a BM. At first I thought they were my external hemorrhoids swelling up but the more I think about it, the more I think it's the prolapse. Luckily at this stage it only happens occasionally, and each time it goes away after I wipe, but if it gets any worse I'm off to the doc and I'm pretty much resigned to the fact I'll need another operation. I'm only 36 years old (male) and I can't believe I'm having these sorts of problems! Has anyone gone through with the surgery? I kinda know what to expect since I had the hemorrhoidectomy, but I'd still like to hear from other people who have gone through it. Anyone?
    kriskirk 4 Replies Flag this Response
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