Discussions By Condition: Medical Stories

*please* help, im going crazy

Posted In: Medical Stories 22 Replies
  • Posted By: yearzero
  • April 24, 2009
  • 00:15 AM

hello, i just joined in hopes of getting some ideas about whats happening to me....

ive been sick since feb 8th, so almost 4 months now.

first an overview of my diet: 16 months ago i decided to become vegan. this was a big change for me, not only bc i cut all animal products out of my diet completely, but bc it led me to eating more vegetables and fruits, and just more real food in general.

before i became vegan i lived on total junk. fast food was big for me, id eat wendys, jack in the box, sonic... all of that stuff. and i loved sweets, like ice cream and little debbies snacks, or just a nice big bowl of frosted flakes. other than sweets and fast food, all i really ate was lunch meat and bread, or canned soups, like those campbells chunky soups that are so popular. not exactly a well balanced diet. all the stuff i mentioned is pretty much what i grew up on. VERY few fruits and veggies during the first 24 years of my life (im 25).

i should also mention that i was a pretty heavy drinker for 5 years or so, and a pack a day cigarette smoker as well.

im not overweight, never really have been, but thats not to say i was ever fit. i DID run cross country in high school, and became pretty good at it (not THAT good, my best 5k was 17flat), but i was never happy with my physique, which was basically fat on breastplate, flabby arms.. fat, but not fat. no definition whatsoever, i had no muscles at all.

oh, and i should also mention that ive been a daily marijuana smoker for 7 years or so. i was also into other drugs, mostly perscriptions(i was addicted to xanax from 05 to may 07), during my late teens early 20s. i had plenty of issues back then, but thats all behind me now. i DO still use marijuana, but not everyday since all this, and i use a vaporizer to administer it since about 2 years ago, which is a godsend. smoke seems really harsh after vaporizing. i dont smoke anything anymore, nor do i use any drugs at all other than pot. no alcohol in over a year, no cigaretts, no pills.

SO

thats an overview of what led me to mid 2007, when i started to consider veganism. i decided i wanted get healthy, but i also came to the conclusion that eating meat is wrong. its not something i EVER thought about, but when i did begin to think about it, the choice was easy.

so in early 08 i started eating right. there was a lot of experimintation, but after i figured it out i was(am) very happy with it. one thing that gives me confidence is using a nutrition tracker, which ive been doing for about 8 months now. FITDAY is what i use, and it basically tells me exactly what im getting out of my diet.

not only did i get my diet straight, but i got back into exercising. after highschool i spiraled into drugs and depression and general couch potatoness, so i had a lot of catching up to do, but i started slow. by july of 08 i was able to run 8 miles, which was very cool, but i wanted to build muscles, so i started to ease up on the running and get into calesthenics. when i started, i could not complete 10 pushups. by jan 0f 09 i could eek out 30 or so, with proper form. i would also do things like pullups(i was only able to do 4 at my best) and dips.

i started to get really motivated, and by january i was going crazy with pushups. i was getting results, and i still have muscles in my chest that were not there before i started all this. id watch my chest and triceps grow, and pretty soon i was doing 100 pushups in the morning(sets of 20), and 100 at night, 5 days a week. i was working 2 jobs, so i found myself coming up short on sleep. but i felt SO good and strong. i felt great.

UNTIL I GOT SICK

the first week of feb 09 was like the weeks before it, 200-300 pushups a day. on 2/8 i started feeling SICK. i left work early, rested, but didnt improve. by 2/14 i could barely stand up. i dont have health insurance(due to a less than ideal job situation) so i put off goingt o get checked out. by 2/21, i couldnt put it off any longer.

i went to a doctor. by this time i was experiencing the most intense fatigue you could imagine. i could barely walk.

at first he thought mono. tests were negative. then he thought PNEUMONIA. they did xrays and conlcuded it was pneumonia. he gave me 5 days of factive, an antibitic. i took the following 5 days off of work, took the meds, but didnt feel better. i continued going to work, but by 2/25 i had to go back to the doctor. i wasnt feeling ANY better. id go to work and just want to lay my head down on the desk. the tiredness was scary, and my chest ached in a weird way. it even hurt to push on the skin lightly. i knew something was wrong with my lungs

so i go back to the same clinic, a carenow center, but saw a different doctor. they took xrays and administered some kind of breathing treatment which didnt seem to do much. they xrays DID show some kind of abstraction in one lung. so he gave me more antibiotics, this time a 5 day course of 'zpak'. 5 more days off work, and i took the meds. during the time off i layed in bed all day. it was all i could do. i did have to get out for groceries from time to time, and it was ***l. i basically laid in bed most of the time for two months. btw I NEVER coughed. i never felt the need to cough. no mucus. my lung just hurt.


on 3/7 i was at work, feeling tired and sick, and my lung started to hurt. bad. each time i drew in a breath, my right lung would hurt, like a sharp stabbing pain. i was breathing really fast and shallow to avoid the pain, and escalated to the pont of really scareing me, so i called an ambulance and went to er. they gave me oxygen, and some kind of IV and the pain subsided.

more xrays, more blood work. the doctor said after looking at the xray that the pneumonia was gone. he listened to my lungs and said he didnt hear anything. no friction rub. he gave me 800mg iburprofens and said i had PLEURISY.

so i took another 3 days off and went back to work. my chest ached, and i still felt sick. and tired. really tired.

a month later on 4/8 i went back to the doctor, a different clinic than before, where doctors volunteer bc this one is for ppl with no insurance. i brought all the paper work from all the previous doctors. he read it all and concluded that maybe i never had pleurisy. he didnt listen to me much, but he basically said give it more time.

at this point, on 4/8, the fatigue wasnt NEARLY as bad as before. i did feel like i was improving, but (and this is why i agreed that i had pleurisy after researching it)my right lung didnt(doesnt)feel right. it feels like its not inflating all the way, like i cant draw as much air into it as my left lung.

so he pushed around on my back muscles some, gave me some muscle relaxors and sent me home, said give it more time.

2 weeks later, i still dont feel right. i GUESS ive improved. i can actually go to work now without getting tired and nautious. but my back hurts, right on top of my lung. its not even just my back, its the area surronding my lung, i think/. i just dont know. when i thought i had pleurisy, i though the pain was my lung. but since this last doc said no pleurisy, it feels more like my muslces.

could the pain be from working out so much and then abrubtly stopping, lying in bed for a month?? obviously i stopped working out feb 8th, and havent dont anything since.

the last few days i have been doing very light pushup work, and stretching out my back muscles a lot, which seems to help, but its just SOO achey back there. my back upper back/shoulder blade feels really btender. is this normal in a person recovering from pneumonoia?

of course, a lot of people think im sick because i dont eat meat, which is really frustrating. i keep track of ever single thing i eat, and bc of that i know im getting all of my nutrients.

TODAY i went back and averaged out the last 8 months.
these are daily averages, over the last 250 days or so...
calories-2878
fat(g)813
carb(g)3456
prot(g)86

86 grams of protein is low for my size 6'2' 165
but that isnt due to a lack of meat, its due to poor diet planning during the first 3 months or so. once i got the diet straightned out, started eating the right stuff, i started getting more, and for jan feb abnd march i averaged like 150g a day of protein, easlily. ALL of my vitamins and minerals are over 100%of the requirements. i take a really good supplement. i DONT think my diet is the problem here.

BUT i dont understand, even with 85g/protein a day, how this diet could have done this to me. i felt/feel great on this diet. no more fast food, no more ben and jerrys 20 minutes before bed. i used to overeat or sometimes not eat at all for a day or two. id have 2 pieces of toast for breakfast and panda express rice and chicken for lunch, cereal for dinner.

sure, the diet was poorly planned in the beginning, but i had tons of energy, felt great.

HOW could this diet be any worse than what i ate for so many years before
???????

do you think i couldve caused this by overtraining/ not recovering enough?
maybe that combined with only 85g.day of protein weakended me and made me prone to illness??

im stumped. im going back to the doctor tommorow. same clinic, but a different doctor, but i dont think theyll do any good.

ive come to the point where i dont even want to use marijuana anymore, bc im scared of drawing anything into my lungs, even though theyre supposedly clear. clear or not, this lung feels injured. i cant workout(or should i start trying??) and im going insane with boredom. : (

i dont even know if its my lung. could it just be the tissue surrounding it?

thanks for reading, i know its a long post. please help me, im desperate for some solid answers here. ive spent hours scouring the internet and no cases of pneumonia or pleurisy seem to fit my case.

i do want to stress that i have imroved since day one, but 4 months????

HEELLLPP!!!

:(

Reply Flag this Discussion

22 Replies:

  • i saw a doctor 2 days ago who mentioned HIV. im awaiting test results for that and several other diseases.
    yearzero 9 Replies Flag this Response
  • Visit a few Chinese shops / restaurants in your area, or get someone to do so. Ask them who the best Chinese Traditional Medicine (TCM) doctor is around there. Research this doctor a bit, once found. Acuann says, "Visit www.acufinder.com and www.nccaom.org to find a good practitioner near you. I don't recommend medical docs who practice acupuncture as they have had inferior training and cannot do a differential diagnosis." Here in South Africa we have a council they should belong to, one can reclaim their fees from medical funds etc. All this is needed, but proves nothing yet, so ask many real Chinese as well - there is an invisible energetic side to their most useful doctors. My folks and I are Afrikaans (as far from Chinese as possible) but yes we have a brilliant TCM doctor here, almost next door. You won't believe all he cured in my family. We also like his fees and attitude a great deal more than our Western doctors. I also know several vegan families here who are all in great health, old and young. Had I myself continued eating meat it would have killed me by now. Of course being vegan doesn't mean we'll never get sick. It does improve one's chances of recovery, of course.
    Curly Stooge 319 Replies Flag this Response
  • tyvm for the replies. :) the antenna search website is pretty cool, i had no idea there are so many of those things around... but if that were the problem, why wouldnt everyone be sick? or why wouldnt i have been sick sooner? i DO think that those things are affecting us adversley. and i DO spend alot of time on the computer, more and more in the last 2 years actually. before 2007 i didnt even have a computer. and i always have my phone on me... so there could be something to that theory. the only way to really know is to stop sitting near my computer so much, to stop walking around with a phone on me all the time.... i do appreciate your response as well, curly stooge. i may very well end up trying some kind of alternative healing. i think theres a lot to that kind of stuff. anyway, the blood results came back today and i am HIV NEGATIVE, so thats good. im still feeling pressure in my back when i breath in, like theres swelling around my lung or something. and my throat is hurting. but not like a typical sore throat, just in certain places and usually only when im breathing. but the blood work came up negative for like 5 diseases, so i dont know whats wrong with me. maybe i should try to exercise.?
    yearzero 9 Replies Flag this Response
  • Exercise is definitely NOT the best idea now!! Pneumonia is often missed even in serious cases, and there are different types also without cough or mucus, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumonia .. You do seem to have pleurisy, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleurisy or pleural empyema, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleural_empyema but it should have an underlying condition. Your throat obviously has some wounds - it could still be anything.See what happens if you avoid all soy products, say for a week - see www.westonaprice.org/soy/complaints.html and http://thyroid.about.com/cs/soyinfo/a/soy.htm - a few react badly to soy. And very important, remember to supplement with zinc - www.westonaprice.org/moderndiseases/copper-zinc-imbalance.html (plus B6, usually sold combined) against infections. She also explains about Chinese medicine. I don't buy everything there at Weston Price though. My Chinese doctor is vegan, while many others use animal products. Find yourself a Buddhist or one from the "Taoist religion", usually from Taiwan. Don't delay - next may be surgery, best avoided.RF - yes my cheap Nokia puts my arm in a painful spasm right away, I have to use an extension. It also took me a while to figure out why my laptop burns me in the tummy. The moment I turn off the wireless all is fine. And no sleep is possible with the wireless router turned on. Home wireless is supposed to be a very weak signal, I don't get it. Two cellphone towers were put up around us, corresponding to the start of eczema and other problems in my family .. I think soon the dismay about tobacco will be nothing in comparison to this. More people do get sick, the numbers are way up. Others don't, yet. It is not the only pathogen in the world.
    Curly Stooge 319 Replies Flag this Response
  • hello, i just joined in hopes of getting some ideas about whats happening to me.... ive been sick since feb 8th, so almost 4 months now. ... i dont even know if its my lung. could it just be the tissue surrounding it? thanks for reading, i know its a long post. please help me, im desperate for some solid answers here. ive spent hours scouring the internet and no cases of pneumonia or pleurisy seem to fit my case. i do want to stress that i have imroved since day one, but 4 months???? HEELLLPP!!! :( You clearly are sufferring a b12 deficiency due to your vegan diet. This is 100% certain, absolutely no doubt. Probably some additional deficiencies such as carnitine too. Meat, fish, eggs, milk have varying amounts of human utilizable b12, no other vegetable based foods have that. http://forums.wrongdiagnosis.com/showthread.php?p=169312&posted=1#post169312 Come on over to the b12 deficiency forum and learn how to heal yourself and be healthy. It's not as easy as buying any old form of b12 taken in any old way of no particular brand. Some forms are 100 to 10,000 times as effective. Some brands are 100 times as effective. One method of use can be 15-20 times more effective. So come on over and learn how to get well.
    Freddd 3576 Replies Flag this Response
  • You clearly are sufferring a b12 deficiency due to your vegan diet. This is 100% certain, absolutely no doubt. Probably some additional deficiencies such as carnitine too. Meat, fish, eggs, milk have varying amounts of human utilizable b12, no other vegetable based foods have that. http://forums.wrongdiagnosis.com/showthread.php?p=169312&posted=1#post169312 Come on over to the b12 deficiency forum and learn how to heal yourself and be healthy. It's not as easy as buying any old form of b12 taken in any old way of no particular brand. Some forms are 100 to 10,000 times as effective. Some brands are 100 times as effective. One method of use can be 15-20 times more effective. So come on over and learn how to get well. that is possible. i did not supplement b12 for the first 6 months of my vegan diet. i started taking a b complex vitamin about 6 months ago, but i read that those arent as effective as sublingual. so i bought some sublingual from GNC and have been taking those pretty regularly for awhile now... i started taking them every day when i got sick in february, and have been doing so since then. last week i felt like i was making progress. the dull pain in my back that occured when i breathed in deeply decreased considerabley. i do still feel soreness in my back though, just not as intense as before with every breath... i guess its from pleurisy, i dont know. i can definitley still feel soreness, mid back, below the shoulder.... i did 30 pushups last night and stretched by back out afterwards, then took a hot shower. i felt ok afterwards.. had a meal of brown rice, black eyed peas and broccoli. today i feel sleepy. not necessarily tired, just sleepy. i will check out the b12 forum.
    yearzero 9 Replies Flag this Response
  • that is possible. i did not supplement b12 for the first 6 months of my vegan diet. i started taking a b complex vitamin about 6 months ago, but i read that those arent as effective as sublingual. so i bought some sublingual from GNC and have been taking those pretty regularly for awhile now... i started taking them every day when i got sick in february, and have been doing so since then. last week i felt like i was making progress. the dull pain in my back that occured when i breathed in deeply decreased considerabley. i do still feel soreness in my back though, just not as intense as before with every breath... i guess its from pleurisy, i dont know. i can definitley still feel soreness, mid back, below the shoulder.... i did 30 pushups last night and stretched by back out afterwards, then took a hot shower. i felt ok afterwards.. had a meal of brown rice, black eyed peas and broccoli. today i feel sleepy. not necessarily tired, just sleepy. i will check out the b12 forum. Hi Yearzero, First, most b12 supplements are cyanob12 and totally worthless. Second of those that are methylb12, of 10 brands tested 2 were 5 stars, 1 was zero stars, totally ineffective for all testers and 7 were 1-3 stars, mediocre. Then since there are two forms of actiove b12, methylb12 and adenosylb12, it might be either or both that you need and we know of 5 star brands of both and they won't be at GNC. So if you want to try something that might work, we would be glad to talk with you over that the b12 forum. We can help you give a trial the best chances of working as we have found many many things that don't work and a few that do. There are critical cofactors as well. So see you there. Post your story and let's get aquainted.
    Freddd 3576 Replies Flag this Response
  • i dont know, i really dont think this is a b12 issue... i was taking sublinual cobalamine for a while( i know someone said that doesnt work) and now im taking a multi that provides b12 with some other drug, not cobalamine... i dont have the bottle with me. i also get b12 from fortified hemp milk.. at this point im feeling ok most days (i do still have an occasional day where i feel tired and sick), even working out a little bit. of course my stamina is nowhere near as high as it was, but thats expected when you dont exercise for 3 months. my main issue now is just this soreness in my back. just below the shoulder blade. its a hugh contrast between my right side(the side that hurts) and the other side, which feels totally normal. sometimes after a long day it will just start to feel really tender and achey. today i definitley feel soreness back there. if i use my left arm i can reach the spot that hurts... its almost localized to a very small place. like if i push on it with my finger it hurts a lot, just in that small spot. but generally the area b/t my right shoulder blade and lower back just hurts. especially if i stretch it out. i think its a result of not getting enough protein. i was avg like 80 g a day but it wasnt from quality sources... and i was doing like a thousand pushups a week... i was caught up in the idea that i dont need to wrry about protein at all as a vegan. now im getting a gram per lb, about 170/day, and have been for about a month now...and im using hemp and pea protein as well as lots of high quality food. this does affect my breathing a bit as well.. but not a lot. i think its muscular, not respairtory... i dont always feel like im getting a full breath on that side . BUT i cant see a doctor anytime soon, so i guess i'll just keep eating right, resting, and hoping i eventually recover from this....
    yearzero 9 Replies Flag this Response
  • i dont know, i really dont think this is a b12 issue... i was taking sublinual cobalamine for a while( i know someone said that doesnt work) and now im taking a multi that provides b12 with some other drug, not cobalamine... i dont have the bottle with me. i also get b12 from fortified hemp milk.. at this point im feeling ok most days (i do still have an occasional day where i feel tired and sick), even working out a little bit. of course my stamina is nowhere near as high as it was, but thats expected when you dont exercise for 3 months. my main issue now is just this soreness in my back. just below the shoulder blade. its a hugh contrast between my right side(the side that hurts) and the other side, which feels totally normal. sometimes after a long day it will just start to feel really tender and achey. today i definitley feel soreness back there. if i use my left arm i can reach the spot that hurts... its almost localized to a very small place. like if i push on it with my finger it hurts a lot, just in that small spot. but generally the area b/t my right shoulder blade and lower back just hurts. especially if i stretch it out. i think its a result of not getting enough protein. i was avg like 80 g a day but it wasnt from quality sources... and i was doing like a thousand pushups a week... i was caught up in the idea that i dont need to wrry about protein at all as a vegan. now im getting a gram per lb, about 170/day, and have been for about a month now...and im using hemp and pea protein as well as lots of high quality food. this does affect my breathing a bit as well.. but not a lot. i think its muscular, not respairtory... i dont always feel like im getting a full breath on that side . BUT i cant see a doctor anytime soon, so i guess i'll just keep eating right, resting, and hoping i eventually recover from this.... Hi Yearzero, i think its a result of not getting enough protein. i was avg like 80 g a day but it wasnt from quality sources... and i was doing like a thousand pushups a week... i was caught up in the idea that i dont need to wrry about protein at all as a vegan. There is your answer right there. Vegans get NO human usable b12. The only b12 is from animal sources. If you were to pick up any old b12 at the store of any kind or take it in a multivitamin the odds of that being successful are 1000 to 1 against you. The two variaties of cobalamin most often sold as vitamins or put in foods are totally worthless for many people and very ineffective for everybody else. Only methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin are human active. Of those a person might be short on one or both. Less than 1% of the vitamins sold contain those varieties. Of those brands that do contain those varieties most of them, by comparitive testing by hypersensitives poor to fair effectiveness with some have zero effectiveness. Only 3 brands of 11 tested rated 5 stars-excellent. Of those 3 brands they are only effective if taken properly, alloweed to linger under lip or tongue for 45-120 minutes. If chewed or swallowed or slurped right down they lose 95-99% of their effectiveness. If a person has any number of specific gfentic situations they need to take miuch larger doses than other folks for the same effect. Further people may need a spec ific form of folate, metnhyfolate and NOT FOLIC ACID if the b12 is to work. There are also a bunch of other cofactors thjat if missing can prevent the b12 from working. Since you are a vegan we KNOW that you are b12 deficient becasue you can't be anything else in addition to anything else you may have going on. Denial is a big river in Egypt. Come on over to the b12 forum already having links in other posts if you want to know how to fix the problem and get well. If you want to stay sick, ignore this. It's your life you are betting.
    Freddd 3576 Replies Flag this Response
  • Hi yearzero.I don't think your problems are directly related to inadequate protein consumption. Studies have shown that, done correctly, it is a much healthier diet for humans. I was a vegan for 5 years and then a vegetarian for another 12 years-- I never felt better! It is vitally important that you do balance your nutrition carefully. Remember that proteins are different. There are 20 standard amino acids (they make up proteins) and of that, 8 are essential. Please try to research and ensure you are getting all 20 from your diet, especially the essential 8 (isoleucine, leucine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan, and valine). It does seem possible to me that your lack of energy may be related to your diet, but maybe not the sole cause. Also ensure that your iron levels are adequate-- vegans have a hard time with that one. I've experienced pleurisy for more than 20 years, on and off. Your lung symptoms sound just like mine for that. I know it hurts, but the more you can take deep breaths and 'unstick' the pleura, the more quickly it will go away-- at least in my experience. Another issues I'm thinking is a real possibility for your is that your back pain is caused not only by the pleurisy, but I'm wondering what you posture is like spending so much time on the computer. People tend to hunch their shoulders and not get up and move around enough when they spend long hours at a computer, causing pain in the shoulder area. This pain is usually from the rhomboid area, however, and it sound like you are more describing pain under the shoulder blade, like for teres major or latissimus dorsi. I am a Master Massage Therapist and I see and treat this type of pain all the time. Could you please clarify exactly where the back pain is located? Is it worse when you have been on the computer? Do you talk on your cell with a headset (bluetooth?) or by leaning your ear to your shoulder?Are you taking any daily meds at this time, even over-the-counter NSAID's?Are these your only symptoms-- lethargy, pain in the back and lung issues? Anything else? Even if you think it's unrelated, please list any other symptoms you might have.
    Harmonium 322 Replies Flag this Response
  • Hi yearzero. I don't think your problems are directly related to inadequate protein consumption. Studies have shown that, done correctly, it is a much healthier diet for humans. I was a vegan for 5 years and then a vegetarian for another 12 years-- I never felt better! It is vitally important that you do balance your nutrition carefully. Remember that proteins are different. There are 20 standard amino acids (they make up proteins) and of that, 8 are essential. Please try to research and ensure you are getting all 20 from your diet, especially the essential 8 (isoleucine, leucine, methionine, phenylalanine, threonine, tryptophan, and valine). It does seem possible to me that your lack of energy may be related to your diet, but maybe not the sole cause. Also ensure that your iron levels are adequate-- vegans have a hard time with that one. I've experienced pleurisy for more than 20 years, on and off. Your lung symptoms sound just like mine for that. I know it hurts, but the more you can take deep breaths and 'unstick' the pleura, the more quickly it will go away-- at least in my experience. Another issues I'm thinking is a real possibility for your is that your back pain is caused not only by the pleurisy, but I'm wondering what you posture is like spending so much time on the computer. People tend to hunch their shoulders and not get up and move around enough when they spend long hours at a computer, causing pain in the shoulder area. This pain is usually from the rhomboid area, however, and it sound like you are more describing pain under the shoulder blade, like for teres major or latissimus dorsi. I am a Master Massage Therapist and I see and treat this type of pain all the time. Could you please clarify exactly where the back pain is located? Is it worse when you have been on the computer? Do you talk on your cell with a headset (bluetooth?) or by leaning your ear to your shoulder? Are you taking any daily meds at this time, even over-the-counter NSAID's? Are these your only symptoms-- lethargy, pain in the back and lung issues? Anything else? Even if you think it's unrelated, please list any other symptoms you might have. thanks very very much for the reply... i do indeed have bad posture, always have. especially when sitting here in my chair, also jsut in general. ive been consciously trying to correct it. its weird bc when i look in the mirror, in order to achieve a straight back, i almost feel like im sticking my stomach out. like if im walking around at the mall, ill pretend that im being pulled by a cord attached to my belly button. when i look at my reflection in store windows as im walking, i look normal. but in order to feel comforatble i would need to slouch a little. its an issue and has been since i was a kid. im really working on walking/ sitting up straight though. im keeping an eye on my aminos now, but for the first 6 months of being vegan i was oblivious to it. no supplements, and i was not eating properly at all. lots of fruits and veggies, and beans, but not much more than that. except natures path organic cereal which i would overeat quite often(2- 3 boxes/4000 calories in one sitting.) anyway, the location of the pain varies. i have a tatoo, and sometimes it hurts right at the bottom of it. i will link a picture of it to give you an idea. the bottom of the tat is where i can sometimes push with my finger and it feels very tender. it hurts. right now its late in the day and as usual im getting achey. but this is lower. its not my lower back, its just above that. im not sure how many ribs i have but i think its 3 or 4 up from the bottom rib. mid back. slightly more toward my side than my spine. but it moves around. sort of. it pretty much stays bt the bottom of my tattoo and that 4th rib up from the bottom area... im not taking any otc meds, or any meds for that matter. no alcohol, no tobacco. regular marijuana use. im taking a multi from Pomolgy, and supplementing with flax seed, hemp, and pea protein. thats it. i have been breathing deeply. back when i first got sick i read somewhere that it was good to do, so i occasionally would take deep breaths and hold them. that made it really clear that my right lung wasnt inflating fully, or that theres scar tissue or something.... also when i exhale after a very deep breath, if i reallly exahale all the way, it hurts. only on the side in question. its just like a tenderness...not sever pain, but pain. so ive continued with the breathing exercises and i think they do help but its hard to tell. as far as symptoms i think its just the back/lung issue and lethargy like u said. some days i just dont feel right. i have tried some light cardio, jogging. and it wasnt so bad. i didnt feel lung pain or anything. so im starting to think its muscular.. anyway i could just go on and on but ill stop for now. THANK YOU for reading and responding. like i said, i dont have access to a doctor, and when i did they werent much help. i never made it to a pulmonologist but i will go as soon as i can. i appreciate your help though, especially since youre experienced with veganism and massage therapy. i cannot express how much i appreciate your advice!
    yearzero 9 Replies Flag this Response
  • Complications of Crohn’s Disease

    Recognize the risks associated with Crohn’s disease.

    8 Surprising Facts About Cholesterol

    Did you know that one in six US adults has high cholesterol?

  • Hi Yearzero, i think its a result of not getting enough protein. i was avg like 80 g a day but it wasnt from quality sources... and i was doing like a thousand pushups a week... i was caught up in the idea that i dont need to wrry about protein at all as a vegan. There is your answer right there. Vegans get NO human usable b12. The only b12 is from animal sources. If you were to pick up any old b12 at the store of any kind or take it in a multivitamin the odds of that being successful are 1000 to 1 against you. The two variaties of cobalamin most often sold as vitamins or put in foods are totally worthless for many people and very ineffective for everybody else. Only methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin are human active. Of those a person might be short on one or both. Less than 1% of the vitamins sold contain those varieties. Of those brands that do contain those varieties most of them, by comparitive testing by hypersensitives poor to fair effectiveness with some have zero effectiveness. Only 3 brands of 11 tested rated 5 stars-excellent. Of those 3 brands they are only effective if taken properly, alloweed to linger under lip or tongue for 45-120 minutes. If chewed or swallowed or slurped right down they lose 95-99% of their effectiveness. If a person has any number of specific gfentic situations they need to take miuch larger doses than other folks for the same effect. Further people may need a spec ific form of folate, metnhyfolate and NOT FOLIC ACID if the b12 is to work. There are also a bunch of other cofactors thjat if missing can prevent the b12 from working. Since you are a vegan we KNOW that you are b12 deficient becasue you can't be anything else in addition to anything else you may have going on. Denial is a big river in Egypt. Come on over to the b12 forum already having links in other posts if you want to know how to fix the problem and get well. If you want to stay sick, ignore this. It's your life you are betting. thanks for the reply, but no thanks. thres my answer right where??? protein or b12? if you think all vegans are going to die from b12 deficiency, thats fine. im not sure if you have a product your selling or what... you keep urging me to 'come on over to the b12 forum'... actually, the multi im taking, made by Pomology, contains methylcobalamin. not that it matters, since as a vegan im doomed anyway, right? i dont want to get too defensive here, but nothing is going to change the fact that im vegan. there are many many many many people who have thrived on a WELL PLANNED vegan diet. of course the moment i say that my diet could be factor people love to pounce and say 'you need meat!' which is less about me and more about their egos. i dont care though. i dont mind admitting that my diet needs improvement. i dont mind admitting that im wrong(despite what you seem to think), which is why i stopped eating meat in the first place. im not eating meat or dairy EVER again. even if i die due to my vegan diet, that will be nothing compared to the millions of deaths caused by meat eaters on a daily basis. SO stop posting in this thread please, bc you obviously have nothing constructive to contribute other than 'come on over to my thread and get some help' which im not going to do since youre evidently very closed minded. i get it. you think its b12. thanks.
    yearzero 9 Replies Flag this Response
  • so im up late and its really sore. when its as sore as this i can poke around and determine where its hurting, which is between the lower half of my shoulder blade and spine. it starts between the shoulder and spine but extends below the bottom of the shoulder down to about the middle of my back. its closer to the middle of my back than the outside. no pain in my lower back.
    yearzero 9 Replies Flag this Response
  • If you can poke there and it hurts - you should suspect the problem closer to the surface, under the skin or in the muscle. Google for rhomboids pain perhaps?
    Curly Stooge 319 Replies Flag this Response
  • last night i posted tw long replies to fredd and harmonium. it said they needed to be approved by a mod.... i guess if i dont see them i'll retype the whole thing again. i only got seven hours of sleep and today my back is realll sore, whcih makes no sense bc i havent done any pushups for like 3 days. rhomboids pain is something i have never heard of. ive done a bit of reading about it and it might be part of whats happening. but today its much lower. sort of in that same narrow area bt the spine and shoulder, but below the shoulder blade, maybe 2 inches from my spine. . around the 2nd or 3rd rib up from the bottom...maybe even just below the bottom rib.... im guessing near the bottom of my lung? it really hurts today. ive been rubbing on it, massaging it. i dont know if its helping or making it more sore.....:(
    yearzero 9 Replies Flag this Response
  • last night i posted tw long replies to fredd and harmonium. it said they needed to be approved by a mod.... i guess if i dont see them i'll retype the whole thing again. i only got seven hours of sleep and today my back is realll sore, whcih makes no sense bc i havent done any pushups for like 3 days. rhomboids pain is something i have never heard of. ive done a bit of reading about it and it might be part of whats happening. but today its much lower. sort of in that same narrow area bt the spine and shoulder, but below the shoulder blade, maybe 2 inches from my spine. . around the 2nd or 3rd rib up from the bottom...maybe even just below the bottom rib.... im guessing near the bottom of my lung? it really hurts today. ive been rubbing on it, massaging it. i dont know if its helping or making it more sore.....:( Hi Yearzero, When one has very few posts, most of the posts of any size end up needing to me approved by a moderator. Sometimes it takes several days so have patience. You sore areas may not be b12 related. Your fatigue, lack of endurance, "sick and tired", acutely tender spots in muscles, muscle spasms and the like may all be b12 related. We have a list of over 300 symptoms. Why don't you at least look at it to see what matches up. Many vegetarian web sites speak of the 5-7 year crash. it's a b12 crash that NEVER gets better without consumption of b12. There are approximately 18 or more plant cobalamins that are totally inactive in humans and just don't count. Kevin, a vegetarian over on the b12 thread would be glad to speak with you about this. I was a vegetarian for 25 years until it almost killed me despite supplemenmting b12 but with an inactive variety. I speak from experience.
    Freddd 3576 Replies Flag this Response
  • Okay, I'm still trying to ascertain the exact location. When you say it's from your shoulder, in every case, you mean your shoulder blade or scapula, right? I think the problem is in your serratus posterior superior muscle. Go to this site and view the pic to see if we are talking about the same area:http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/aa/Serratus_posterior.PNG/250px-Serratus_posterior.PNG&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serratus_posterior_inferior_muscle&usg=__1i_34Owyd4EV-oO1up_2IiBv3sk=&h=394&w=250&sz=142&hl=en&start=2&sig2=Re6fY2oAiRqiYV8UhChfdQ&um=1&tbnid=sq3zQkI29_H1KM:&tbnh=124&tbnw=79&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dserratus%2Bposterior%2Bsuperior%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DX%26um%3D1&ei=Kbk9So3UC96MtgfOqawT
    Harmonium 322 Replies Flag this Response
  • Dear YearZero,I understand how you feel about being a vegan.Your diet as a vegan is absolutely healthy.However, you have other problems and the doctors cannot find an answer.I hope you can put it a try. Go back to junk food with meat for one week and see how your back reacts.If that's still too difficult for you and you would rather die as mentioned in your previous post. I can help you in other direction. When you have tried all other medication and still need help, please e male me poodlesamy at live dot comBest of luck
    poodlesamy 26 Replies Flag this Response
  • No, DON'T go back to meat and junk food, it will hit you hard as you are now sensitive to it. Those who eat it don't realize what it does, because over time their systems become blunted, non-functional.Many parts will give notice (vitality, lung, muscles) as the problem is always a meridian, connecting many places. Other parts may be next. I again advise acupuncture from a pro. Being young, you can be cured in 1-3 visits.
    Curly Stooge 319 Replies Flag this Response
  • thanks for the reply, but no thanks. thres my answer right where??? protein or b12? if you think all vegans are going to die from b12 deficiency, thats fine. im not sure if you have a product your selling or what... you keep urging me to 'come on over to the b12 forum'... actually, the multi im taking, made by Pomology, contains methylcobalamin. not that it matters, since as a vegan im doomed anyway, right? i dont want to get too defensive here, but nothing is going to change the fact that im vegan. there are many many many many people who have thrived on a WELL PLANNED vegan diet. of course the moment i say that my diet could be factor people love to pounce and say 'you need meat!' which is less about me and more about their egos. i dont care though. i dont mind admitting that my diet needs improvement. i dont mind admitting that im wrong(despite what you seem to think), which is why i stopped eating meat in the first place. im not eating meat or dairy EVER again. even if i die due to my vegan diet, that will be nothing compared to the millions of deaths caused by meat eaters on a daily basis. SO stop posting in this thread please, bc you obviously have nothing constructive to contribute other than 'come on over to my thread and get some help' which im not going to do since youre evidently very closed minded. i get it. you think its b12. thanks. Hi Yearzero, You have some misconceptions. The thread I refer you to is not "my" thread. I'm not selling anything. All I can offer is information and education and that's a compositie effort by many folks including vegetarians who are not obstinately ignorant. There is too much information there to repeat it all here which is why a suggestion of reading it where it is. If you had read it you would know that methylcobalamin is not the kind of b12 the muscles use and whose lack causes muscle problems, that for genetic reasons a person can have plenty of one kind of b12 and be deficient on the other kind. There are people there educated on the vegetarian forms of various supplements and how to heal these problems as vegetarians. I care not a whit whether you are a vegan or not. That is a problem only in so far as getting active b12s from food sources. You are mighty defensive about it though. You do as you wish as that is your full right. For your own sake I hope you choose to become better educated about things. There are vegan oriented sites that are quite knowledgable about the b12 issue but theyt are not in the majority. There are also a lot that spread quite wrong information about b12. In this game of You Bet Your Life it's entirely up to you. Have fun and good luck.
    Freddd 3576 Replies Flag this Response
Thanks! A moderator will review your post and it will be live within the next 24 hours.