Discussions By Condition: Liver conditions

Increased liver size, normal liver enzymes, pretty bad overall health

Posted In: Liver conditions 3 Replies
  • Posted By: Anonymous
  • June 1, 2010
  • 04:57 PM

I need help. Both my mental and physical states have been deteriorating over the past five or so years.

I have this forum to thank for the B12 thread that basically gave me a whole new perspective on my life and more or less saved me.

This will be a long text, so I'll try to give a brief description of my problems first, and try to elaborate further on.

I'm not a native English speaker but I'll do my best.


I can provide mri and ct scan images, exact numbers from the blood tests and basically anything anyone here might suggest.


Short version:

What I'm currently facing:

1) Fatigue, over-sleeping, being unable to focus

In the autumn of 2009 my blood tests indicated a low b12 value (it was around 160 I believe). The doctors here didn't pay any attention to that, saying it wasn't that important.

I got myself tested because I wasn't able to run anymore. My legs wouldn't listen to me and I grew really tired really fast. I slept more than 12 hours each day. I had been running for about 3-4 months. I was unable to work. I am a computer programmer and my job requires me to stay really focused. Because of my condition I work from home now, but I was still unable to get anything done.

I am overweight and I need to run to keep my shape. I've had huge variations in weight over the past years.

B12 shots fixed a good part of that. My first b12 shot was like turning on the light in a really really dark room. I can actually get some work done now.




2) Stabbing pain when running in a small area that I understand coresponds to the right liver lobe. The area is around two fingertips wide and is directly under the rib cage.


Nobody thought it had anything to do with the liver since blood tests reavealed perfect liver enzymes. I retested and they are still in the correct ranges.

Last year I was able to run. I stopped running in the autumn, decided to take a break to replenish my b12 supplies. In january I went to the gym for a month. It was over tiring for me. Spring came, I went out for a light jog, the pain was really really bad. I sometimes felt the pain when running last year, but never this bad or this fast. I used to run for more than 25 minutes, now I had to stop after 5 minutes.

Since the enzymes were that good, I decided to do a CT scan. It indicated that
a) my liver size was increased - to quote the doctor : from the size of it it would indicate a condition similar to the recovery after a viral hepatitis - he suggested it looked like I just had hepatitis A. The liver is close to the iliac crest (I understand that's big, I can provide the images).

b) based on the liver density he deduced I have a fatty liver. I've gained some weight since I was unable to run, and I'm sure that the hepatosteatosis isn't helping me, but at my current weight I shouldn't have those problems.


Their conclusions were:
-stop eating fried foods, stop drinking alcohol,
-take some vitamins
-rest

What they didn't understand is :
-I haven't been eating fried foods and drinking any alcohol for the past years since I've had past liver problems (they were totally ignored)
-Taking vitamins and resting will just make me less able to work, possibly make me lose any physical condition that I might have.
-I NEED to run or do some sort of intense workout because it helps me focus and maintain my weight.


A few works about my past:

In 2005 I had my first liver problems, the liver enzymes were high (at about 200). I fixed that by sleeping a lot and not doing anything.

In 2007 my liver enzymes were at about 400 (the 'normal' values being < 50). I had laparoscopic surgery to fix a hiatal hernia that caused massive acid reflux.

The liver biopsy then revealed hepatosteatosis. Again, fixed that by sleeping a lot and watching my diet - my weight has fluctuated a lot, and right now, at my present weight i shouldn't even have a fatty liver.

In 2009, one year ago, I had pneumonia. The doctors called it idiopathic pneumonia, afaik that's a nice way of saying that they don't know what caused it. Recovering from that (to be honest it was pretty bad for me) I ate a lot and got fat. That's when I started running. I lost *a lot* of weight running and for the first time in years I started having energy and feeling healthy. That's why I would like to be able to keep doing it.


I didn't have any sort of viral hepatitis, AIDS, they blamed the liver problems on Epstein-Barr and/or the fatty liver.

My apologies for this long post, there might be more coming...



I would honestly appreciate any answer/advice/discussion on this since it basically turned my life upside down: I started working from home (and not being very productive with that), I never got to finish the university (computer science) , I keep getting fat/thin, and my mental state isn't all that good, I'm sure you can imagine that.

Thank you

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3 Replies:

  • Rapid changes in weight are very ******n you... Especially your liver. I stressed out my liver working with chemicals and drinking beer in the evening. About 5 years ago, I was in pretty bad shape. Tried everything under the sun as far as supplements go, but nothing helped until I found PPC (polyenylphosphatidylcholine), brand names "PhosChol" "HepatoPro" in the US, and "Essentiale Forte" in Europe. This stuff fixed me up like new again in about 3 to 6 months. I thank God every day for PPC and still take it even tho I'm feeling fine. PPC is a highly concentrated, polyunsaturated form of Lecithin... It's hard to find (available only online in US or by prescription in Europe) and is not cheap, but it is very good for you and has little or no side effects. If you can't get PPC where you live, or can't afford it, I would try Lecithin... The unfortunate thing about Lecithin is, you must take quite a bit of it. 6 or more gelcaps a day. Many pro-lecithin sites advise using granular lecithin as it is much more concentrated. There is a new "triple strength" Lecithin out that would be good if you can find it. You still need to take 6 or more of these a day (the pills are smaller). With PPC, 2 gelcaps a day should work fine. Don't take Lecithin if you are taking PPC, as it will compete for absorption on a cellular level. Take one or the other. SAM-e is another supplement that has been well studied and found to be a great help to liver function. It is also expensive, and you must take SAM-e on an empty stomach with a full glass of water to wash it through your stomach (stomach acid will hurt SAM-e) and into your intestine where it can be absorbed undamaged. I prefer the 200mg SAM-e to the 400mg as it is cheaper and has less side effects. PPC helps your liver make its own SAM-e, so if you are taking PPC you may not need to add a SAM-e supplement. Aside from PPC, SAM-e, or Lecithin, you might look into "Alpha Lipoic Acid", as this stuff is supposed to help the liver with fat and sugar metabolism. Google around on polyenylphosphatidylcholine/PPC and I think you'll find this is your best bet on fixing your liver. By all means, ask your doctor too! Good Luck and GodSpeed!
    synesthesia 87 Replies Flag this Response
  • hi...get tested for leukemia.I need help. Both my mental and physical states have been deteriorating over the past five or so years. I have this forum to thank for the B12 thread that basically gave me a whole new perspective on my life and more or less saved me.This will be a long text, so I'll try to give a brief description of my problems first, and try to elaborate further on.I'm not a native English speaker but I'll do my best.I can provide mri and ct scan images, exact numbers from the blood tests and basically anything anyone here might suggest.Short version:What I'm currently facing: 1) Fatigue, over-sleeping, being unable to focusIn the autumn of 2009 my blood tests indicated a low b12 value (it was around 160 I believe). The doctors here didn't pay any attention to that, saying it wasn't that important.I got myself tested because I wasn't able to run anymore. My legs wouldn't listen to me and I grew really tired really fast. I slept more than 12 hours each day. I had been running for about 3-4 months. I was unable to work. I am a computer programmer and my job requires me to stay really focused. Because of my condition I work from home now, but I was still unable to get anything done.I am overweight and I need to run to keep my shape. I've had huge variations in weight over the past years.B12 shots fixed a good part of that. My first b12 shot was like turning on the light in a really really dark room. I can actually get some work done now.2) Stabbing pain when running in a small area that I understand coresponds to the right liver lobe. The area is around two fingertips wide and is directly under the rib cage.Nobody thought it had anything to do with the liver since blood tests reavealed perfect liver enzymes. I retested and they are still in the correct ranges.Last year I was able to run. I stopped running in the autumn, decided to take a break to replenish my b12 supplies. In january I went to the gym for a month. It was over tiring for me. Spring came, I went out for a light jog, the pain was really really bad. I sometimes felt the pain when running last year, but never this bad or this fast. I used to run for more than 25 minutes, now I had to stop after 5 minutes.Since the enzymes were that good, I decided to do a CT scan. It indicated that a) my liver size was increased - to quote the doctor : from the size of it it would indicate a condition similar to the recovery after a viral hepatitis - he suggested it looked like I just had hepatitis A. The liver is close to the iliac crest (I understand that's big, I can provide the images). b) based on the liver density he deduced I have a fatty liver. I've gained some weight since I was unable to run, and I'm sure that the hepatosteatosis isn't helping me, but at my current weight I shouldn't have those problems.Their conclusions were: -stop eating fried foods, stop drinking alcohol, -take some vitamins-restWhat they didn't understand is :-I haven't been eating fried foods and drinking any alcohol for the past years since I've had past liver problems (they were totally ignored)-Taking vitamins and resting will just make me less able to work, possibly make me lose any physical condition that I might have.-I NEED to run or do some sort of intense workout because it helps me focus and maintain my weight.A few works about my past: In 2005 I had my first liver problems, the liver enzymes were high (at about 200). I fixed that by sleeping a lot and not doing anything.In 2007 my liver enzymes were at about 400 (the 'normal' values being The liver biopsy then revealed hepatosteatosis. Again, fixed that by sleeping a lot and watching my diet - my weight has fluctuated a lot, and right now, at my present weight i shouldn't even have a fatty liver.In 2009, one year ago, I had pneumonia. The doctors called it idiopathic pneumonia, afaik that's a nice way of saying that they don't know what caused it. Recovering from that (to be honest it was pretty bad for me) I ate a lot and got fat. That's when I started running. I lost *a lot* of weight running and for the first time in years I started having energy and feeling healthy. That's why I would like to be able to keep doing it.I didn't have any sort of viral hepatitis, AIDS, they blamed the liver problems on Epstein-Barr and/or the fatty liver.My apologies for this long post, there might be more coming...I would honestly appreciate any answer/advice/discussion on this since it basically turned my life upside down: I started working from home (and not being very productive with that), I never got to finish the university (computer science) , I keep getting fat/thin, and my mental state isn't all that good, I'm sure you can imagine that.Thank you
    Anonymous 42789 Replies
    • January 12, 2011
    • 10:25 PM
    • 0
    Flag this Response
  • I need help. Both my mental and physical states have been deteriorating over the past five or so years. I have this forum to thank for the B12 thread that basically gave me a whole new perspective on my life and more or less saved me.This will be a long text, so I'll try to give a brief description of my problems first, and try to elaborate further on.I'm not a native English speaker but I'll do my best.I can provide mri and ct scan images, exact numbers from the blood tests and basically anything anyone here might suggest.Short version:What I'm currently facing: 1) Fatigue, over-sleeping, being unable to focusIn the autumn of 2009 my blood tests indicated a low b12 value (it was around 160 I believe). The doctors here didn't pay any attention to that, saying it wasn't that important.I got myself tested because I wasn't able to run anymore. My legs wouldn't listen to me and I grew really tired really fast. I slept more than 12 hours each day. I had been running for about 3-4 months. I was unable to work. I am a computer programmer and my job requires me to stay really focused. Because of my condition I work from home now, but I was still unable to get anything done.I am overweight and I need to run to keep my shape. I've had huge variations in weight over the past years.B12 shots fixed a good part of that. My first b12 shot was like turning on the light in a really really dark room. I can actually get some work done now.2) Stabbing pain when running in a small area that I understand coresponds to the right liver lobe. The area is around two fingertips wide and is directly under the rib cage.Nobody thought it had anything to do with the liver since blood tests reavealed perfect liver enzymes. I retested and they are still in the correct ranges.Last year I was able to run. I stopped running in the autumn, decided to take a break to replenish my b12 supplies. In january I went to the gym for a month. It was over tiring for me. Spring came, I went out for a light jog, the pain was really really bad. I sometimes felt the pain when running last year, but never this bad or this fast. I used to run for more than 25 minutes, now I had to stop after 5 minutes.Since the enzymes were that good, I decided to do a CT scan. It indicated that a) my liver size was increased - to quote the doctor : from the size of it it would indicate a condition similar to the recovery after a viral hepatitis - he suggested it looked like I just had hepatitis A. The liver is close to the iliac crest (I understand that's big, I can provide the images). b) based on the liver density he deduced I have a fatty liver. I've gained some weight since I was unable to run, and I'm sure that the hepatosteatosis isn't helping me, but at my current weight I shouldn't have those problems.Their conclusions were: -stop eating fried foods, stop drinking alcohol, -take some vitamins-restWhat they didn't understand is :-I haven't been eating fried foods and drinking any alcohol for the past years since I've had past liver problems (they were totally ignored)-Taking vitamins and resting will just make me less able to work, possibly make me lose any physical condition that I might have.-I NEED to run or do some sort of intense workout because it helps me focus and maintain my weight.A few works about my past: In 2005 I had my first liver problems, the liver enzymes were high (at about 200). I fixed that by sleeping a lot and not doing anything.In 2007 my liver enzymes were at about 400 (the 'normal' values being The liver biopsy then revealed hepatosteatosis. Again, fixed that by sleeping a lot and watching my diet - my weight has fluctuated a lot, and right now, at my present weight i shouldn't even have a fatty liver.In 2009, one year ago, I had pneumonia. The doctors called it idiopathic pneumonia, afaik that's a nice way of saying that they don't know what caused it. Recovering from that (to be honest it was pretty bad for me) I ate a lot and got fat. That's when I started running. I lost *a lot* of weight running and for the first time in years I started having energy and feeling healthy. That's why I would like to be able to keep doing it.I didn't have any sort of viral hepatitis, AIDS, they blamed the liver problems on Epstein-Barr and/or the fatty liver.My apologies for this long post, there might be more coming...I would honestly appreciate any answer/advice/discussion on this since it basically turned my life upside down: I started working from home (and not being very productive with that), I never got to finish the university (computer science) , I keep getting fat/thin, and my mental state isn't all that good, I'm sure you can imagine that.Thank youHi, I had the same problems with my liver, but a few different symptoms/side effects from certain activities. I'm in the Canadian Military and went over to Afghanistan in 2003. I came home in 2004 and started having pains in my right side and went to the doctor. They ran me through nearly 100 blood tests, half a dozen ultra-sounds, an MRI, and by the end I had 209 vials of blood taken from me over two years. They told me I had Hep B, gave me all of the vaccines again, still had the same problems before my liver stopped growing. They said it was a fatty liver from the sudden weight gain of 30 - 40 lbs in six months. I have been exercising for years to work it off only to put on 20 more the second time I went to Afghanistan in 2009, but was eating strictly vegetables, fruit, water and fish (eating healthy also means eating in small quantities, not the huge plate-fulls that I was eating three times a day). The only thing I did in Afghanistan the first time was take Mefloquine (an anti-malarial drug), I took once a week. The real kicker was that I drank about 7 red-bull a day for nearly six months while in Afghanistan, that should have killed me there but that is apparently either a myth or the mefloquine was fighting the taurine as if it was malaria. When I got back from tour I took Effexor-XR (an anti-depressant that was supposed to help me with my sleeping and insomnia) I think the red bull really messed up my liver, along with the mefloquine and effexor-xr. When the doctors had all of this information, and the two years of blood tests, they finally told me it was a freak abnormality and my liver went into overdrive and started regenerating at an f'd up rate, so it grew in size from 14 to 21 cms and finally stopped after two and half years. I now sometimes have pains in the right side of my rib cage when I drink. Other times I have an allergic reaction to the alcohol, which starts around my forehead and ears and gets tingly, then I get a redness to my face, neck, and ears and a cold sweat for about a minute. All of that lasts about ten minutes, and people think I'm having a heart attack or a stroke, but I'm ok after that. A beneficial side effect is that I can drink a lot of alcohol (for me it's a lot, around 6 or 7 beer in a four hour period). I'm not a big drinker, and it's very rare when I do, but for some reason the effects of the alcohol don't kick in until after five hours, usually when I call it quits and head home. However, the minute I have something to eat regardless of how long I've been drinking, the intoxication hits me like a brick wall. So I've been fighting a losing battle with weight fluctuation, an ongoing battle with bouts of insomnia for years which can then turn into over sleeping, and chronic nasal/lung infections.....which is completely a separate case but comes from the deep sleeps I fall into while over sleeping and snoring for hours on end. I hope if anything from this helps you that you stay away from anti-malarial drugs (so don't go on vacation to any countries where you would require taking an anti-malarial drug), and don't drink red bull or similar energy drinks in mass quantity....because they become an addiction.
    Anonymous 42789 Replies Flag this Response
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