Discussions By Condition: I cannot get a diagnosis.

maybe i dont have ME

Posted In: I cannot get a diagnosis. 16 Replies
  • Posted By: Anonymous
  • June 1, 2008
  • 00:11 PM

ok so maybe 6 years ago i developed flu like symptoms andafter 4 days i was wiped out in a big way i couldnt move i needed help to get up and about. after 6 months it eased a bit, but if i pushed myself it reapeared. any way heres a list of my symptoms to see if anyone can help, as the doctors just have me on loads of pills

Joint pain
Muscle pains (mainly arms and legs,but has effected most body muscles includign my eyes)+ cramping sensations painfull enough to wake me up screaming
muscle weakness made worse with exertion
short term memory problems
brain fog (feels like my brain is in cotton wool)
food intollerences (never had before)

most recently pins and needles, numbness and reduced sensation in my left hand up to my elbow.

Reply Flag this Discussion

16 Replies:

  • food intollerances definately go hand in hand with ME ... 25-65% of ME people develop food intollerances with it http://wwcoco.com/cfids/bernesx.html I have ME and have developed intollerances to dairy, peanuts and chemicals (multiple chemical sensitivity.. this often develops after the food intollerances start with this condition.. so you unfortunately you could find this may be one of your next issues). the other new thing you have came too. Welcome to the start of the ME neuro symptoms.. from there.. you may develop twitches, spasms and tremors, body co ordination troubles (i get leg drag and my symptoms appear as a parkinsons disease patient at times). You doctor may notice you have abnormal pupils, hyper-reflexia etc The various subgroups of CFS/ME usually follow certain symptom patterns.. you sound quite classical. Sounds like you are entering the next stage of it. (If you study Dr Cheney's stuff.. you'll learn about the varioius stages most with ME progress throu or stay stuck at)..................... Do thou go and see your doctor about the new symptom thou. in case you really have something like MS. (CFS can thou cause many MS like symptoms.. including numbness and not being able to feel temp).
    taniaaust1 2267 Replies Flag this Response
  • do you happen to have a link to where i might be able to find more information on Dr Cheney's stuff
    Anonymous 42789 Replies Flag this Response
  • do you happen to have a link to where i might be able to find more information on Dr Cheney's stuff Unfortunately thou he's very well known (he was the first doctor to bring CFS to the medical professions awareness and the public awareness back in the 80s and still is a forerunner in the CFS field), there isnt a huge amount online but here is some. (He has some of his CFS lectures on DVD) http://www.immunesupport.com/library/showarticle.cfm?id=4042&t=CFIDS_FM has some of his info. Phase 1 - high RNase L destroys human RNA. High RNase L highly affects liver function, so in phase 2 your liver is not functioning properly and it is unable to handle toxicity Phase 2 - cellular toxicity due to xenobiotics Phase 3 - Injury to Central Nervous System and DNA gene rearrangement (damage done to brain) He's also this past week released two new research studies which have been put online http://www.immunesupport.com/library/showarticle.cfm/id/8888 Cell Associated Therapy for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome: Is this the NextFrontier?http://dfwcfids.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2095&Itemid=754 Oxygen toxicity a Locus of Control for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome ............There is an old CFS interview of him and CFS called "The Heart of the Matter" which is online (but he's came a long way since then). His latest 2 set of DVD lecture.. is fascinating. the second DVD thou is so scientifically complex it's mainly for doctors..
    taniaaust1 2267 Replies Flag this Response
  • sounds alot to me like some sort of autoimmuine disease.. I am going through alot of the same things.. sometimes I feel completely out of my mind! I am in constant pain, from head to toe. My eyes only seem to hurt to a bothering extent at night though. This is a list of my symptoms: weight/hair loss, anxiety, psychosis, chest pain, palpitations, lower/upper GI pain, constant heartburn and gnawing pain right above belly button (seems to be associated with my hiatal hernia, but pain has gotten unbearable at times), fatigue, waking in middle of night and not falling back to sleep (not normal, for I am a very hard sleeper), depression, panic attacks,insomnia, and muscle/joint pain. It sounds like alot, cuz it is! I am desperately trying to find out whats wrong with me.. maybe Lyme Disease, Addison's? Adrenal defieciency? I dunno... Have u been tested for anything?
    makahfili 8 Replies Flag this Response
  • if you have a lot of pain it could be fibromyalgia, which is very simerlar to M.E but people get a lot of pain with this. I was told i had M.E at 15 but i'm now 17 and the diagnosis doesn't match hardly any of my symptoms,:confused: if you don't feel happy you have the right diagnosis you should question it, even if its only for piece of mind. Good LuckHope you find answers soon. :)
    wheelchairpower 2 Replies Flag this Response
  • have you ever been exposed to mold?
    dizzy lizzie 192 Replies Flag this Response
  • if you have a lot of pain it could be fibromyalgia, which is very simerlar to M.E but people get a lot of pain with this. I was told i had M.E at 15 but i'm now 17 and the diagnosis doesn't match hardly any of my symptoms,:confused: if you don't feel happy you have the right diagnosis you should question it, even if its only for piece of mind. Good LuckHope you find answers soon. :) Hi there :) People with M.E. also can get a lot of pain. In fact possibly over 50% of them.. have fibromyalgia as well. I just wanted to post to correct the myth that people with FM have more pain.......................... wheelchairpower, If it was M.E. you are lucky having it so young..as there is a more of a chance you will recover. (im curious in what has changed for you from your original diagnoses.. if you want to share?. M.E. can cause all kinds of symptoms and be very very serious. It can easy put one into a wheelchair! If you think you are too severe to have this.. you are wrong.I was just wondering if you thought you do not have M.E due to your condition being very severe? and as far as the exhaustion goes if you dont think you currently could have the illness due to not having that, if that's gone??.. if you have ME subgroup of CFS.. not all get that tired.. the "symptom complex" can manifest as more neuro issues and general sickness feeling etc. I myself dont get the exhaustion or tiredness with it anymore.. the ME for me kicks in more with the neuro symptoms and other symptoms eg body weakness... (i think the medical profession has a lot to catch up with with this illness but if you check out, i guess they can be excused as they have only been studying it for 20 yrs and most of that time thinking it was probably a psychriatrict issue. They also tend to mix up ME with CFS.. not all with CFS thou have ME!) If you are constantly fatigued this should not be taken to mean that you have M.E. no matter how severe or prolonged your fatigue is. Fatigue is a symptom of many different illnesses as well as a feature of normal everyday life – but it is not a defining symptom of M.E., nor even an essential symptom of M.E. from http://www.ahummingbirdsguide.com/whatmefeelslike.htm (Jodi has severe ME and is very involved in the ME community. I too have had 12 yrs involvement with ME and back up most of what she is saying.. she gets her info from personally experience with ME people and from the scientific studies). Before you discount that you may of had ME.. make sure you are fully aware of all the facts of this illness. (of cause if you can put another name to your illness and symptoms.. You havent got ME). A quarter of ones with CFS ARE wrongly diagnosed as having it.. so of cause you may be right..and have another condition.
    taniaaust1 2267 Replies Flag this Response
  • David JK!Your symptomes are the one of lyme disease,especially that all this started with a flu like symptoms. It is the typicall lyme scenario.What you must understand, is that normals doctors, even infectious doctors don't believe in lyme disease, in chronic lyme disease. And the test they use is not good. It is not sensible enough and give too much negative. And if you are positive, they give you 1 month of abx only, and then you don,t go out of this...I know it seems crazy, but here is the proof of the actions of the attorney general of Connecticut, who forced them to change this:http://www.ct.gov/ag/cwp/view.asp?a=2795&q=414284Things will change soon but for now, if you want to have a diagnosis and a good treatment, you must see a Lyme doctor, there is a lot in USA.Go on lymenet to ask them for help, and you'll see how your symptoms are the same.http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?Look here for symptoms:click symptoms:www.canlyme.comYou can't have all now, that's why you must be treated soon.This is serious. If you don't do this, you will have a diagnosis of fibromyalgia or ms, and it's not what cause this.It is normal if you don't remember a tick bite, did u see the size of a tick. this is crazy, i don't even realize it was the cause of all my symptoms...And i am recovering!With antibiotics!Look at the movie coming soon;you will see this infectious dr denying lyme, it's one of the IDSA that attorney brought in process.http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=sxWgS0XLVqwPlease, read and look at it ok, it is your life and i wish sincerely you don't lose too many years waisting your time.Fannie
    Fannou 111 Replies Flag this Response
  • The following will be very interesting for anyone who does actually have ME and also those who are worried if they have been misdiagnosed. (it's an article about what ive been talking about lately on here, 88 abnormal genes have been discovered in ME) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2008/03/18/scime118.xml British researchers are close to developing, for the first time, a blood test and potential drug treatments for myalgic encephalomyelitis (ME), also known as chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS), following groundbreaking work on its genetic origins. 'The stigma associated with the disease can sometimes be as much of a problem as the symptoms'ME/CFS affects about one in 200 people, and women sufferers outnumber men by six to one. It causes a constant feeling of extreme exhaustion and malaise for more than six months, along with sleep abnormalities, memory and concentration difficulties and a great deal of pain.In its most extreme form, the disease leaves sufferers bed-ridden and can even be fatal. But patients now have new hope, thanks to research published in the Journal of Clinical Pathology by Dr Jonathan Kerr of St George's University of London and his colleagues.They have identified 88 genes that produce different levels of proteins and other molecules in ME/CFS sufferers compared with the rest of the population.advertisement Dr Kerr's team carried out a complex analysis of the records of 55 patients and found that they could be divided into seven sub-types according to the specific gene combinations found in their white blood cells, and the severity of their symptoms.The most acutely affected patients had 71 of the 88 gene abnormalities.The results of this work should allow better understanding of the causes and development of the disease. So all the lymies who have got CFS cause of lyme and those who have just lyme but are misdiagnosed with CFS.. well one day soon (im thinking within next 5 years).. we will be able to be tested. (scientific studies show that 10% of lyme cases develop CFS!! (its the same kind of statistics of things like infectious mono cases and ross river virus etc which go on to develop CFS.. CFS does develop from other things eg toxins, viruses etc.. things which alter our genetic structure)
    taniaaust1 2267 Replies Flag this Response
  • Hi there :) People with M.E. also can get a lot of pain. In fact possibly over 50% of them.. have fibromyalgia as well. I just wanted to post to correct the myth that people with FM have more pain. quote] Sorry I didn't mean for it to come across that people with fibromylgia have more pain, than those with M.E i was trying to saying that i know people with FM have a lot of pain, not meaning to compare the too.
    wheelchairpower 2 Replies Flag this Response
  • Errrrrrm. A study that involved 55 patients? And then divided them into 7 groups? So you have only 8 patients in each group...There's no way you can do any decent analysis on such a small number of patients. This kind of study is very poor quality. You need 100s (if not 1000s) of patients to draw solid conclusions.There are so many of this kind of study available, and I understand the need of sufferers to try and grasp hold of anything that might explain their condition, but we need solid, large scale experiments by good scientists who understand statistics to understand these complex conditions.Sorry if I sound so negative, but you have to understand the statistics.....
    happyprince123 33 Replies Flag this Response
  • Complications of Crohn’s Disease

    Recognize the risks associated with Crohn’s disease.

    8 Surprising Facts About Cholesterol

    Did you know that one in six US adults has high cholesterol?

  • Errrrrrm. A study that involved 55 patients? And then divided them into 7 groups? So you have only 8 patients in each group... There's no way you can do any decent analysis on such a small number of patients. This kind of study is very poor quality. You need 100s (if not 1000s) of patients to draw solid conclusions. There are so many of this kind of study available, and I understand the need of sufferers to try and grasp hold of anything that might explain their condition, but we need solid, large scale experiments by good scientists who understand statistics to understand these complex conditions. Sorry if I sound so negative, but you have to understand the statistics..... sorry that i dont know now where the actual scientific version of this study is online.. it's online thou as ive read it and exactly what they did during that study.. the link i posted is just something which was written about it (I posted that cause it was easier for those here to understand than finding again the formal study and posting that). The study didnt work out that they had the same in each group at all like you suggested here (it's my fault that you've come to that conclusion for not posting the actual formal study details). The study started out with various ones with various CFS symptoms, they noted the abnormal genes.. than found out they could actually tell which kind of symptoms (which subgroup of CFS) a person was in.. and the severity of the persons CFS (which also varies in the subgroups).. according to the genes... they knew just what the person was like CFS wise.. without even being told the symptoms!! It worked out that most of the CFSers int he study were in just 2-3 (i cant remember now) common subgroups.. and the other subgroups were less common..so not as many CFSers fell into them.. I remember that one of them just had 2 CFS people in them (not 8 as you suggested).. as i said.. before the study of the genetics.. they had no idea that the genes would show what subgroups the people were in. (You've assumed they matched people with same symptoms into groups..and then tried to find the same kind of abnormal genes in these groups.. but that wasnt the way this study was done). What was truely amazing about this study is that they could actually TELL just by the GENETICS.. esp what symptoms and how bad the person was.. and got it right for EVERY PERSON in the study (55 people). Now i know it was just a small group.. but the odds of being able to correctly indentify each persons symptoms and severity of CFS.. well that cant be put down to luck or just chance. What would be the chances of accurately being able to put 55 people into the same symptom and severity groups.. just by guessing??? It just wouldnt happen. So obviously there is truely something in this study. I personally think that cause it was such a small study.. they will probably find a few more subgroups and more abnormal genes involved.. when they start looking at larger numbers of CFS people...
    taniaaust1 2267 Replies Flag this Response
  • i just found the actual details of the study again.. (to stop some people from assuming certain things about how the subgroups were already set ) happy prince stated Errrrrrm. A study that involved 55 patients? And then divided them into 7 groups? So you have only 8 patients in each group... the truth is cause this study wasnt done in the way as being assumed Genomic CFS/ME subtypes.Clustering of RQs from patients with CFS/ME identified 7 subtypes consistingof 2, 5, 2, 19, 7, 14, and 3 patients. part one Source: Journal of Infectious DiseasesVol. 197, #8, pp 1171-1184Date: April 2008URL: http://www.journals .uchicago. edu/doi/abs/ 10.1086/533453 Gene Expression Subtypes in Patients with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome/MyalgicEncephalomyelitis------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -Jonathan R. Kerr(1,*), Robert Petty(1,a), Beverley Burke(1,a), John Gough(1),David Fear(2), Lindsey I. Sinclair(6), Derek L. Mattey(7), Selwyn C. M.Richards(8), Jane Montgomery(8) , Don A. Baldwin(10), Paul Kellam(3), Tim J.Harrison(4), George E. Griffin(1), Janice Main(5), Derek Enlander(11) , DavidJ. Nutt(6), and Stephen T. Holgate(9)1 Department of Cellular & Molecular Medicine, St. George's University ofLondon,2 Department of Asthma, Allergy and Respiratory Sciences, King's CollegeLondon, Departments of3 Infection and4 Medicine, Windeyer Institute of Medical Sciences, University College London,and5 Department of Infectious Diseases and General Medicine, Imperial CollegeLondon, St. Mary's Hospital, London,6 Psychopharmacology Unit, Department of Community Based Medicine, Universityof Bristol, Bristol,7 Staffordshire Rheumatology Centre, Stoke on Trent,8 Dorset CFS Service, Poole Hospital, Dorset, and9 MRC Department of Immunopharmacology, University of Southampton, SouthamptonGeneral Hospital, Southampton, United Kingdom;10 Penn Microarray Facility, University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia; and11 New York ME/CFS Service, New York, New Yorka R.P. and B.B. made equal contributions to this article.* Reprints or correspondence: Dr. Jonathan R. Kerr, St. George's Universityof London, Cranmer Terrace, Jenner Wing, Rm. 2.267, London SW17 0RE, UnitedKingdom (jkerr@sgul.ac. uk). Received 14 July 2007; accepted 24 September 2007; electronically published19 March 2008.Potential conflicts of interest: none reported.Presented in part: 2007 Conference of the International Association for ChronicFatigue Syndrome/Myalgic Encephalomyelitis, 10 14 January 2007, FortLauderdale, Florida.Financial support: Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Research Foundation, Hertfordshire,United Kingdom. Abstract Chronic fatigue syndrome/myalgic encephalomyelitis (CFS/ME) is a multisystemdisease, the pathogenesis of which remains undetermined. We set out todetermine the precise abnormalities of gene expression in the blood ofpatients with CFS/ME. We analyzed gene expression in peripheral blood from 25patients with CFS/ME diagnosed according to the Centers for Disease Controland Prevention diagnostic criteria and 50 healthy blood donors, using amicroarray with a cutoff fold difference of expression of >=2.5. Genesshowing differential expression were further analyzed in 55 patients withCFS/ME and 75 healthy blood donors, using quantitative polymerase chainreaction. Differential expression was confirmed for 88 genes; 85 wereupregulated, and 3 were downregulated. Highly represented functions werehematological disease and function, immunological disease and function,cancer, cell death, immune response, and infection. Clustering ofquantitative polymerase chain reaction data from patients with CFS/MErevealed 7 subtypes with distinct differences in Medical Outcomes SurveyShort Form-36 scores, clinical phenotypes, and severity. Chronic fatigue syndrome/myalgic encephalomyelitis (CFS/ME) is characterizedby severe and debilitating fatigue, abnormal sleep behavior, impaired memoryand concentration, and musculoskeletal pain . In developed nations, thepopulation prevalence is estimated to be 0.5% . Studies have identifiedvarious features relevant to the pathogenesis of CFS/ME, such as viralinfection; abnormal immune function; exposure to toxins, chemicals, andpesticides; stress; hypotension; abnormal lymphocyte levels; andneuroendocrine dysfunction. However, the precise underlying mechanisms ofdisease and the means by which they interrelate in patients with CFS/MEremain to be clarified . Various studies have analyzed gene expression in the peripheral blood ofpatients with CFS/ME, and in each study genes associated with immunity anddefense were prominent . Unfortunately, in several of these studiesquantitative polymerase chain reaction (PCR) confirmation was not performed,so the results may be unreliable . The genes identified inthe studies that used PCR confirmation suggest that CFS/ME has a complexpathogenesis . However, because none of these studies werecomprehensive in terms of the number of human genes examined, our knowledgeof the precise metabolic pathways involved in CFS/ME remains incomplete. The goal of this study was to determine the precise abnormalities of geneexpression in the blood of patients with CFS/ME. We enrolled patients with arigorously defined CFS/ME phenotype and compared them to healthy blood donorsby means of a microarray that represented the entire human genome and byquantitative PCR confirmation. Using this approach, we identifieddifferential expression of 88 human genes in patients with CFS/ME. Amongthese genes, highly represented functions were hematological disease andfunction, immunological disease and function, cancer, cell death, immuneresponse, and virus infection. Clustering of gene expression data revealed 7CFS/ME subtypes with distinct clinical phenotypes and associated diseaseseverity. SUBJECTS, MATERIALS, AND METHODS Subject enrollment, clinical characterization, and blood sampling.Twenty-five patients with CFS/ME from the Dorset CFS Service in southeastEngland were enrolled for the microarray study. Patients with CFS/ME whoseblood was used for subsequent PCR studies comprised those in the microarraystudy along with an additional 30 patients from clinics in 3 United Kingdomcities (Dorset, Bristol, and London; 1 patient from Leicester was under thecare of a clinic in London) and New York, New York. CFS/ME was diagnosed onthe basis of Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) criteria .Patients with psychiatric disease were excluded on the basis of findings ofthe Minnesota International Neuropsychiatric Interview, thus ensuring that nopatients had major psychiatric disease or were abusing alcohol or drugs. Inaddition, patients who had smoked tobacco during the previous 12-month periodand/or had taken antibiotics, steroids, or antidepressants during theprevious 3-month period were excluded from the study. Healthy blood donors were used as a comparison group for both the microarrayand real-time PCR studies. For the microarray study, 50 healthy blood donorswere enrolled from the Dorset National Blood Service (NBS) and matched to theCFS/ME group at a ratio of 2:1 on the basis of age, sex, and geographicallocation. For subsequent PCR studies, the comparison group comprised thedonors involved in the microarray study plus an additional 25 donors, allenrolled from the NBS. Restrictions imposed by the NBS on persons who areallowed to donate blood are outlined elsewhere . Blood donors wereexcluded from the study if they had smoked tobacco during the previous12-month period and/or had taken antibiotics, steroids, or antidepressantsduring the previous 3-month period. In accordance with the recommendations of the International Chronic FatigueSyndrome Study Group , the following questionnaires were completed forall enrolled subjects (patients and control donors): the Chalder FatigueScale , to assess the severity of physical and mental fatigue; theMedical Outcomes Survey Short Form-36 (SF-36), to determine the level ofdisability; the Somatic and Psychological Health Report, to characterizeaccompanying symptoms; the Pittsburgh Sleep Questionnaire, to assess abnormalsleep behaviors; and the McGill Pain Questionnaire, to assess the type andseverity of pain. For patients with CFS/ME, neurocognitive testing wasperformed using the Spatial Span (SSP) and Verbal Recognition Memory (VRM)modules of Cantab software (Cambridge Cognition). In another study, the SSPtest yielded abnormal findings for patients with CFS/ME , and we foundsimilar abnormalities in patients with CFS/ME enrolled in this study. Patients and control subjects gave informed written consent, in accordancewith guidance of the Wandsworth Research Ethics Committee (approval number05/Q0803/137) . For patients in New York, approval of the local institutionalreview board was obtained. Human experimentation guidelines of the USDepartment of Health and Human Services were followed in this study. Fifteen-milliliter blood samples from patients with CFS/ME and healthy blooddonors (as part of routine blood donation) were collected into PAXgene tubes(PreAnalytix) , and total RNA was extracted using the PAXgene blood RNA kit(PreAnalytix) , according to the instructions of the manufacturer. RNA qualityand amount were confirmed by microspectrophotome try (Nanodrop). Total RNAsamples used in this study had an absorbance ratio (A260/280) of 1.9-2.0.
    taniaaust1 2267 Replies Flag this Response
  • part two of that studyMicroarray analysis.RNA specimens were shipped as ethanol precipitates to the Penn MicroarrayFacility (Philadelphia, PA), where mass and qualitative assays were repeated,using the Nano-drop spectrophotometer and Agilent Bioanalyzer, respectively.Bioanalyzer traces indicated that intact ribosomal bands as well as variousbackground and partial degradation bands typical of blood RNA were present inall samples. All microarray analyses were conducted with the GeneChip humangenome U133 2 microarray (Affymetrix) and the One-Cycle target labeling andcontrol reagents kit (Affymetrix) , in accordance with the manufacturer' srecommendations. The average cRNA yield was 48 g for samples from the controlgroup and 51 mug for samples from patients with CFS/ME. Samples from 10patients with CFS/ME were randomly selected as technical replicates forhybridization to a second Gene-Chip, to assess concordance. Microarray Suite5.0 (Affymetrix) was used to quantitate expression levels for targeted genes;default values provided by the manufacturer were applied to all analysis pa-rameters. A weighted mean value of probe fluorescence (corrected fornonspecific signals by subtracting the mismatch probe value) was calculatedusing the Tukey 1-step biweight estimate. This signal value, a relativemeasure of the expression level, was computed for each assayed gene. Globalscaling was performed to allow comparison of gene signals across multiplemicroarrays.Microarray data were normalized in Excel 2003 (Microsoft) and imported intoGeneSpring 7.3 (Agilent Technologies) within a genome consisting of theentirety of the probes on the microarray minus the probes that were specificfor >1 gene (i.e., those with the suffix "_s_at" or "_x_at"); thiseffectively excluded probes whose specificity could not be assigned withcertainty to any one gene and reduced the genome to 39,174 probes. Data wereanalyzed by use of a class comparison experiment to obtain a list of geneprobes that showed differences in expression between test and control groupswith a fold difference cutoff of 2.5 and a P value of ==100 between minimum and maximum RQs (which is indicative of poorreplicate concordance) were excluded. The t test was used to compare RQs forthe patients with CFS/ME with RQs for the control subjects. Genes with meanRQs that differed significantly (defined as a P value of ==2.5. However, when all probe values for each of these genes werereviewed, for only 182 genes were the majority of probe values in agreementwith the mean fold difference of the probe that originally flagged that gene.
    taniaaust1 2267 Replies Flag this Response
  • **sighs.. for some reason it wont allow me to post the whole study.. it says my long messages are "too short".. weird!!** (i cant provide a link for the whole study for those very medical minded, as it's in my inbox in my email) i'll try again tomorrow (i didnt even get to post teh interesting parts of it).
    taniaaust1 2267 Replies Flag this Response
  • Don't worry - I'll follow the link to the journal site. Looks very interesting!
    happyprince123 33 Replies Flag this Response
Thanks! A moderator will review your post and it will be live within the next 24 hours.